"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:53:23 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:

Furthermore, the 262 didn't make it through either. It's aerodynamic
shape
coupled with it's ability to create the thrust required didn't equate.
There
was no way the 262 would have been able to get high enough and accelerate
fast enough in real time within the altitude restraints it could create.
In
other words, for the specific design of the 262, there simply wasn't
enough
sky up there to get it done. This is common knowledge in the flight test
community. Even if it had the air available, the 262's drag index curve
would never have allowed a total mach one airflow.

Well, ignoring the altitude limitation, I'm not sure if aerodynamics
has to matter. If a man without an airplane can fall from a balloon
fast enough to get supersonic, it seems that an airplane should do the
same. You know, going downhill with the wind at its back?

The entire context of aerodynamic shape as it relates to the 262 doesn't
address the single factor that defines the shape. The context should address
the COMBINATION of the shape; thrust; AND the room available to put that
shape through mach 1. In my opinion the 262 just didn't have the right
combination of thrust to fight it's HUGE drag rise curve and get the job
done within any altitude vs time envelope available to it.

Other than this being highly unrealistic and totally impossible, of
course, it's a good argument. However, there is a reason that Yeager
is said to be the first to exceed Mach 1 in nearly level flight. It's
like the caveats on the Wrights.

I don't think anyone would disagree that Yeager was the first in "nearly
level flight". That simple caveat "level flight" seems to be the "issue"
that causes all the debate on who was actually first. The general statement
you hear most often from various sources both inside and outside the
military, regardless of the "official printed" release given at the time of
Yeager's flight, is that Yeager was the first to break mach one....or that
Yeager was the first to go supersonic....or that Yeager was the first to
break the sound barrier. Notice that all of these statements seem to omit
the level flight condition. This, coulped with a HUGE assortment of eye
witnessess ranging from North American employees, people on the range at
Edwards, on down to those who were sitting at the bar at Pancho's :-)) the
week before Yeager's flight when Welch was toying around with the 86, all
seem to confirm that Welch indeed did manage to go mach 1 in the prototype
Sabre.



George Welch was probably the first through mach one. I realize this damn
argument will go on forever, but Welch again is the general consensus of
the
flight test community......and Yeager is very much a member of this
community :-)))

I have Chuck, Bob, Bob, Jack, and James's (Yeager, Cardenas, Hoover,
Russell, and Young) book, "The Quest for Mach One" right here
(autographed by Chuck because I bought it at the EDW museum). Not a
word about George Welch that I can find. Johnny Armstrong says the
X-1 was first, too, as did Jackie Ridley.

If that isn't "the flight test community", I don't know what is.

Even George Welch doesn't think he was first, according to both Dick
Hallion and Chuck Yeager. I heard Chuck say so when asked directly at
the 50th anniversary ceremony.

Mary

Even Chilton couldn't say for sure. It's ironic, but of the few who were in
on it, a civilian named Millie Palmer would have been the best shot at a
certainty. Welch had told her to listen for the booms and she heard them.
Also, Welch not claiming he was first is absolutely within the context of
his personality as well as the extremely "unusual" circumstances that were
directly involved with his prototype flights in the 86 during the week prior
to Yeager's flight.
The official version gives mach one to Yeager. Welch was ok with that; a
real gentlemen. I would compare him in an instant to Red Barber, who existed
in very much the same conditions as Welch. Gentlemen both.
And this takes noting away from Yeager either; a fine gentlemen and an
absolutely great pilot. These things are what they are,,,,period! History
isn't always kind, and history sometimes doesn't tell the "entire" story.
It's not a lie.....not even a fabrication......it's just the way things go
down. You learn to live with it....just like George Welch did.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired
For personal e-mail, use
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt
(replacezwithe)