Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On 12 Oct 2003 08:14:41 -0700, (robert arndt) wrote:


Not built, not flying, non-existant. NATO research would mean US
research, and we are not giving stealth away. Yet more of your
Ubermench fantasy.

Al Minyard

Al, there you go again with your anti-German rhetoric. Germany didn't
need US help when it comes to stealth since the Germans invented it.
In WW2 they had the G0-229 and radar-absorbing paint
(Shornsteinfeger). They also had anti-sonar Alberich covering for
their schnorkels and Type XXI and XXIII subs.
BTW, the US stole the radar defraction design of the F-117 from the
Russians and the first US stealth aircraft wasn't even the F-117- it
was a Windecker Eagle civilian plane covered in RAM back in the early
'70s.
Russia at this time already was working on the Sukhoi T-60S stealth
bomber (which is still active) and by 1981 when the F-117 became
operational the Germans had the MBB Lampyridae program (which would
have been superior to the F-117 in design with better faceting also
faster and armed). You can't tell me the Germans just bowed to US
pressure and gave it up.
Britain, OTOH, is said to have developed FFX propulsion and shared it
with the US... not the other way around. Bae developed HALO which is
an admitted stealth aircraft prototype and from eyewitness accounts of
the BD crash in the '90s Bae haD at least one other stealth aircraft
that was flying in the '90s (similar in appearance to the cancelled
YF-22). Recently we have seen the Replica design too.
Dassault, SAAB, MiG-MAPO, Sukhoi, Tupolev, and EADS all have their own
stealth aircraft programs without US participation or permission. And
to a lesser extent so do China, India, Pakistan, South Africa, Israel,
and Japan.
The US does not have a monopoly on stealth or anti-stealth. Get over
it.
Two German black triangular craft flew at the Overberg range in South
Africa and you can't handle it. Too bad. Europe has stealth too. Too
bad. Whine about it all you like.

Rob

Utter bullsh**. The "YF-22" has not been canceled, it is in
production, the German "stealth" project was a complete failure, the
RAM on the Nazi's U-Boats was completely in-effective. Having a
"stealth program" and having deployed, active stealth aircraft are two
completely different things. The US did not "steal" anything, we
simply incorporated some open-source calculations in our stealth
program. Germany, and Europe, have no operational stealth aircraft,
get over it.

Al Minyard

A typo, Al. Relax. The line should have read YF-23. Second, the Type
XXI and XXIII U-boats that did employ the Alberich covering were
undetected, so were Type VIIs with the stealth schnorkel raised. The
radar absorbing paint became the basis for the type found on the
latter U-2s and yes, we did steal the entire radar defraction scheme
from a single Russian source.
As for Germany, Europe, or NATO having no operational stealth
aircraft- you simply don't know. What we do know is that non-US
stealth aircraft have been flying over Europe since the '90s and that
all the major nations have black projects too.
If German stealth is utter BS as you claim then please tell me how MBB
designed the Lampyridae independently from the US and without help
from Pyotr Ufimtsev's book? Their aircraft would have been superior to
the F-117 in faceting and much faster, armed with aams too! It must
really **** you off that from scratch the Germans designed such an
aircraft while the US took decades of research and translation to
arrive at the same conclusions!!!
Here's to the Firefly II, may Al live to see it!

Rob