Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:55:03 GMT, wrote in
:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:45:03 GMT, wrote in
:
Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:32:09 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote in
2008012108320950073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom:
The FAA probably had nothing to do with a crash at Corona.
Wasn't it the FAA who created Class B, C, and D airspace? To the
extent that this concentrates aircraft not in contact with ATC in the
limited airspace outside of Bravo, Charlie, and Delta airspace, the
FAA can perhaps be seen as contributory. But it's a stretch.
Here's a TAC: http://skyvector.com/#32-24-2-4488-3214
Yeah, look at it closely.
The non-ATC controlled airspace around Corona is hardly limited.
I suppose that depends on how one characterizes 'limited.'
What I see is:
Class D with a ceiling of 2,700' within a mile north
TPA at Corona is 1533 and the pattern is to the south. The only way
to get to Corona through the CNO class D is to first go through the
ONT class C, and almost nobody does that except students being shown
how to use the radio.
The floor of outer ring of the KONT Class C is 2,700', so there's no
need to transition the KONT Class C from the north though the KCNO
Class D if you stay below 2,700', but that's not at issue here.
Or in other words, there is a huge area around the class C, so it is
hardly airspace limiting.
Class Charlie with a floor of 2,700' overhead
See above. If you are under the Class C and going to or coming from
Corona, you would never be that high anyway.
If remaining in VMC required it, you might.
Not unless your A/C climbs like a fighter or has airbrakes for the
decent.
However, if it is not VMC below you, you certainly aren't going VFR
to Corona
Another Class Charlie a few miles to the SE
The floor of the SNA class C in that area is 3500 feet. There is no
reason to go in that direction unless you are actually going to SNA.
Of course, there is the reciprocal to that statement, when you are
arriving at KAJO.
So how would the presence of SNA be a limitation on getting to Corona
from SNA?
You can't go down the coast that way as you would have to go through
a restricted areas around Camp Pendleton.
All you have to do to fly down the coast is stay a mile or two off
shore, and you'll be clear of R2503 A & D.
SNA is to the west; if you were going down the coast to one of the San
Diego airports starting from Cornoa, the direct route is between SNA
and Camp Pendleton.
[...]
And then there are the ~4,000' mountains ~5 miles to the southeast and
the Paradise VORTAC ~3 miles NW that tend to concentrate aircraft.
And on the other side of those hills (the mountains are to the north)
is SNA and two restricted areas. You aren't going that way unless
you are going to either SNA or Hawaii.
I can think of no reason to anywhere near Paradise VORTAC either departing
or arriving VFR at Corona.
KAJO is located 3 miles from Paradise VORTAC; you don't get a choice.
Traffic over Paradise is +/- 3 miles, and again I can think of no
reason to be near Paradise.
I find those as limiting the airspace available to flights not in
contact with ATC. You say 'tomato'...
I find the Pacific Ocean and the 10,000 foot mountains far more
limiting than any controlled airspace area.
Agreed. But that wasn't part of what we were discussing.
I thought were discussing the limitations of controlled airspace.
Most of the airports in the basin are towered. The only ones that are
not are CCB, AJO, L67 (going away to developers), SBD, RIR and REI.
What is your point?
The point is that if you are going to controlled airspace on purpose,
the fact that the airspace is controlled is hardly limiting as you
have to talk to ATC and going no-radio isn't an option.
Of course, this is a non-issue for IFR flights and those receiving
Radar Traffic Advisory Service from ATC.
Though in some places it is a very good ideo to have flight following,
one can fly for hours in the basin without turning on the radio.
--
Jim Pennino
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