(Peter Stickney) wrote in message ...
In article ,
"The Enlightenment" writes:

"Token" wrote in message
newsLTvb.81844$Dw6.391288@attbi_s02...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/...ain/index.html

This story is claiming that a MANPAD hit a courier aircraft today.

If the story is correct it was an SA-7, I would think a 7b. Imagine
how
much better something designed in the last quarter century might do?

Horrifying for us all.

In this case, I don't think so. The warheads on the newer MANPADS
aren't any bigger, or, on the whole, much more differntly designed
than the ones you'll find on the SA-7/Redeye/Blowpipe. Where they're
more sopisticated is getting that warhead into proximity fuze range,
so that it goes off. In this case, the warhead went off. (There was
a case last summer involving an El Al jet where they didn't.)
Terminal effects are going to be the same.
The better ECCM and guidance laws built into an SA-14, say, aren't
going to improve your Pk against a slow, unagile, and unaware target
like the DHL Airbus. You don't need that extra 10% for that kind of
target.

That is a little reassuring.

I believe one counter measure the Israelis had against SA7's was to
strengthen the exhuast pipe on their A4 Skyhawks. The weapon simply
lacked the punch to bring down an aircraft in many cases and the IAF
strenthened the the odds.

The latter weapans have much higher engagement altitudes; around
25,000 ft for an SA18. Given the orbital bombardment model I can see
someone putting up an 40,000 ft engagement envelope on a MANPADs to
cope with a Lawn dart or Buff.

Some kind of solid fuel gasifier ramjet motor maybe.



A few months ago there was a thread in here about heat seekers and
high bypass ratio engines. Those certainly look like high bypass ratio
engines to me.

I only saw a glimpse but it looked like an A310 with GE CF6 engines.

The RB211 engine might have a reasonable chance of obscuring the hot
exhaust nozzle as the shorter length of the Rolls Royce engines' 3
spool shaft allows the fan cowling to extend back beyond the exhaust
nozzle thus covering up hot metal completely. (RR use this technique
to reduce noise however)

And since the missile is more likely to be homing on the hot spot of
the exhaust plume, which is a bit behind the nozzle, I'd rather doubt
that whether it was a CF6 or an RB.211 would make any difference.

Interesting. More exhaust gas mixing maybe? Isn't that a requirement
of both noise reduction and infra-red signature reduction?


A direct hit on an engine isn't necessary - getting the warhead close
enough to fuze means that the fragments are going into the aircraft
right where all that side's fuel, hydraulics, electrical lines,
control rums, and, if appropriate, hot air bleeds are routed.
Anywhere on a large jet near the engines is a mighty tender spot.

A lot of these systems aren't proximity fused are they? Airliner
metal is pretty thick. A B29 was supposedly 5mm so an A310 must be
around 1cm.

Beam riders like the RBS70/90 series or the most impressive British
Starstreak are more of a concern if they got in to the wrong hands.

http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/starstreak.html
Recently trials have been conducted using this missile against ground
targets. The results were surprising and impressive. In brief, the
Starstreak darts can each penetrate over a metre of RHA at a range of
6000m-nearly twice the range of a TOW. While TOW takes 21 seconds to
reach 3,750m Starstreak takes less than 5 seconds to reach 6000m.