On Jan 8, 12:15�pm, wrote:
On Jan 8, 10:41�am, Tim Taylor wrote:

�What you describe can still happen with the new rules
so I guess I don't see the point in trying to make the rule more
complex. �I can climb up right at the center of the cylinder and dive
through the gaggle five miles ahead as long as I don't stay in the
cylinder longer than 2 minutes. �Maybe we need to shorten that time to
1 minute so they are likely to get a new start time and make the whole
idea of hitting the front edge worthless.

Good points Tim. �It feels like an attempt to solve a problem that
doesn't happen much and in doing so negates some of the benefits of
the original rule change while only halfway meeting the objective of
making the "bump and run" strategy hard to pull off when it is an
option.

Andy's suggestion of a fixed front half should work - with the
understanding that under the worst case scenario a pilot could
technically line up a course line that ran for 10 miles along the
straight edge of the half-cylinder - just the way the angles work out.
Would it happen very often? Who the heck knows? It would be simpler to
understand.

The other possible approach would be to make the start cylinder
smaller (like 3 miles) - no software re-programming required. I like
the bigger cylinder, but it would be an easier experiment to run in
2009.

9B

The rules are written as an agreement between several parties.
This agreement requires all entrants to be in agreement with the rules
and each other. All entrants must be on equal ground and must not be
required to have special, expensive software which only a few can
afford. If one wishes to start anywhere within the defined start
circle, or turn anywhere they choose within the defined turn area,
they must not have the fear that if they don't have the new and
expensive software they might not recieve their flown distance.
The problem is trying to make something work that has these
restrictions which has been pointed out by several of you. I do
believe the rules committee has seen this and is working on it. If
starting out the top is what is normally not done by almost all the
entrants, has not been normally seen, then simply stop it. Most
contest managers that I have spoken with, starting out the top is
their worst fear for possible problems. This one point of starting out
the top was the underlying reason why the NSF closed its doors in
Hobbs. They were very concerned about one hot jock starting out the
top and bouncing his way thur the gaggles. I was their, I saw the IGC
files, and became very involved with this topic.
We finally got a finish which you can't pull up into. I, and
another, almost got knifed in half, when someone pulled up right in
front of us inside the circle, during the finish. We were at 500 agl.
and chutes don't work from 500 ft. agl.
How can this "new start anywhere" be a "start anywhere" when you
can't do that? That's the crazest dang thing I ever heard. Almost all
of us forgot their geometry 101 in high school. New entrants (or any
entrants) flying in any class should be able to understand the rules
and not feel they are at a disadvange before they even get to the
contest. They won't even come. The contest, yes, the contest, should
not start before the start. The start must be fair and equal to all
entrants. Not just to a few who have more knowledge than most of us.
Many thanks to both Andy's on bring this up. I do believe the
rules committee is working on this, because BB hasn't shown up yet and
told us different. I do believe what the rules committee is trying to
do is stop the starting out the rear half, why? because if the first
leg is downwind, its best to start as far upwind as you can, as it
makes the last leg home into the wind shorter, which saves time.
Remember well that XX talks about saving seconds. By starting up near
one side of the circle you can again use the wind, maybe a quartering
tail wind, to fly to the far otherside of the first turn circle, again
saving time. Remember, even on blue days, streets of lift do line up,
reread A J Smith on this.
Now, new folks don't read RAS and most of you already knew this,
so I feel safe in talking about this. But, is this fair to all
entrants? As long as I win, it sure is..........cause I will tell them
they could of read it on RAS.............

Thermal tight, Soar high, Fly safe........#711.