On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:33:37 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 12:20:10 PM UTC-7, noel.wade wrote:

On Aug 27, 8:38*pm, 2G wrote:







Everybody likes to get back and tell their story about a low save; everybody OOHs and AWHs. Nobody says "You DUMB ****, YOU COULD HAVE KILLED YOURSELF!"







So in my first contest, there was a tough day trying to work our way



back uphill to higher terrain (and home). I ended up making 3 low



saves in a row, each only about 300' AGL. I could have soared out to



lower terrain if needed each time, but I was making thermalling turns



only a couple of hundred feet off the ground. When I got home, I was



chuffed that only Gary Ittner and I made it home (everyone else landed



out). Upon reviewing the traces it appears that he and I did



virtually the same thing, making low-save after low-save at almost



identical points on the route home (though I was 15-20 minutes behind



him).







Just a few weeks later I was at another contest, proudly relaying this



story to Tom Kelly ("711"). He basically said exactly the same thing



- that I was an idiot and could have killed myself quite easily, and



to get the hell away from him.







At first I was very hurt, and then I was really ****ed off. Wasn't



Gary a legend in the sport? Wasn't I "smart" to have figured this out



and emulated him (even if unintentionally)? Wasn't I skilled to have



pulled it off and gotten home? Here I was, a budding contest pilot,



doing well on a tough day and hanging (sorta) with one of the best



pilots around! Why the hell should I be raked over the coals for my



accomplishment??







Over time, I've come to the realization that Tom's attitude is a lot



closer to the right attitude. A lot of good, skilled, experienced



pilots do dumb things. Even if I am the hottest pilot in the universe



(breaking news: I'm not), it isn't always smart to mirror the behavior



of top pilots. Following someone else's lead into a trap is just



dumb. I'll admit that I still sometimes take moderate risks in my



contest flying; but I'm far more cognizant of them and I don't simply



use other pilots as a measuring-stick for safety or what's "right" to



do.







--Noel



This is exactly why those kind of discussions on RAS are so important. You will hear opinions that you will normally wouldn't hear elsewhere or face to face. I will definitely think twice next time before deciding to thermal below 500 ft AGL.

Sad news but great discussion.



Ramy


THANK YOU for admitting you were wrong; I feel like I made some sort of impression. I feel that it will take this kind of CRITICAL self and group appraisal to have any serious impact on the current accident rate.

Frankly, the current approach by the Soaring Safety Foundation is completely ineffective: "There is no acceptable accident rate." What the hell does that mean and how can that mentality be used to reduce the accident rate? Then they categorize accidents by phase of flight (takeoff, in-flight, landing, etc.). Accidents are caused by pilots making DUMB DECISIONS (baring the relative few mechanical failures), pure and simple. WHY do pilots make dumb decisions? The possibilities a
1. They freeze and stop flying the glider.
2. They don't want to land back and wait in line for a relight.
3. They don't want to go thru the hassle of a retrieve (and may not have anyone available to retrieve them).
4. They have never landed in a field and are afraid.
5. They are trying to win a contest.
6. They are trying to set a record.
7. They have some sort of commitment and must get back to the field.
8. They are tired and/or dehydrated and are not thinking properly.
9. They don't want to scratch their expensive glider.
10. They want to impress their fellow pilots.

I am sure there are others. Honestly, the first one is a killer and I don't have a solution for it; some people simply can't handle stress and shouldn't be pilots. One guy wrote two long articles in soaring describing exactly this reaction and was congratulated for being honest: nobody told him to take up a different sport!

The others can be dealt with. One day, I casually told another pilot in a little difficulty not to worry, I will come and get you if you land out (he didn't). The next day he sent me an email thanking me for that comment, and that it greatly reduced his stress level at the time.

The bottom line is we have to be openly critical of our fellow pilots who are making obviously dumb decisions. That may not have any effect, but it certainly won't if we remain silent.

Tom
2G