On 8/29/2012 8:23 AM, Tim Hanke wrote:

On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 9:22:58 PM UTC-4, jack gilbert wrote:

You all seem to "assume" that Jim was intentionally trying to execute
controlled flight at a low altitude. He may,.... have experienced an
extreme crisis, ie heart attack. JG


I have flown with Jim for the last 15+ years. He was a CFIG that taught
spin training in the Blanik l-13's and now in their L-13AC. Jim was what I
would say is a conservative pilot. It is my understanding from others that
he did not take water with him on the flight. It was a hot day and not sure
if his judgement may have been alterted due to dehydration. I think it
would be a good thing also to wait and see if the medical findings show any
heart issues. Too me the spin is not cut and dry. Is their a dehydration
issue? Medical issue? What would make him thermal so low at 3.5 hours into
a local flight?

Tim Hanke H1


My heart goes out to all of Jim's family and friends; the soaring community is
a small, close-knit one. Each accidental death hurts in everyone's heart.
Talking about it can be a coping mechanism for some...it certainly is for me.

I can't speak for other previous contributors to this thread, but speaking for
myself I readily admit the circumstances of this particular accident may
always have very real uncertainty in my mind as to contributing factors.
(That's a common thing...)

That said, I've long tried to look at others' misfortunes by way of extracting
something(s) usefully life-enhancing for my own flying. That requires making
"working conclusions" based upon (sometimes) hidden assumptions, in the face
of uncertain facts.

Over the years I think I've encountered some "fairly well documented" glider
fatalities that did indeed involve medical incapacitation. It's always possible.

I've also encountered a whole lot more "apparent departures from controlled
flight too low for survivable reactions" that DON'T seem to have any obvious
medical connections (e.g. stroke, heart attack), to make me willing to hang my
hat on survivability always being " medically based." For me, ignoring the
many accidents that (also seem to) include intentional
risk-taking/margin-thinning just seems imprudent. Maybe that's just me. In any
event, *that's* where I've been coming from in this thread. We seem to have
a(nother) low-altitude departure from controlled flight in this instance. Why?
I don't know. We may never know with certainty. Certainly Jim Rizzo could have
made some fatally-flawed decisions. If he did, it doesn't make him a bad human
being or in any way change who he was, and from comments shared in this
thread, he seems to have been a decent, helpful person indeed...someone I
would have felt privileged to know. But given the historical litany of such
(low-altitude departure from controlled flight) fatal accidents, and given
this year's North American record of such accidents, to NOT discuss them as a
fact of aviation life might arguably be tantamount to sweeping potential
realities under the rug.

FWIW, having most of my gliding PIC experience in the
(low-humidity/sunny/evaporatively-cooling) intermountain west, I've no doubt
dehydration is: a) insidious (at multiple levels); b) potentially
life-threatening (again, at multiple levels, e.g. physiologically *and*
judgmentally); and c) easily possible for any glider pilot (and perhaps more
likely for an instructing pilot who typically must talk [respire more] a lot).

It should be no surprise to conclude dehydration-related accidents HAVE
happened. (Ref: Paul Schweizer's near-fatal committed-to-the-landing-pattern
crash in a Texas 1-26 Championships, easily found by researching the online
"Soaring" magazine files. Useful lessons therein...)

My guess is every contributor to this thread is coming from the perspective of
"trying to extract useful-to-them lessons" from Jim Rizzo's tragic accident,
and maybe (from the more experienced types, e.g. UH, John C.) to help "spread
the word about the "what's and why's" inherent to the risks of intentionally
attempting "low-altitude-saves." If it's necessary, I apologize for any
inadvertent pain occasioned by my contributions.

Sadly,

Bob W.