"Jim Baker" wrote in message
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"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
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"Jim Baker" wrote in message
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"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
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"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:15:51 -0600, Scott Ferrin
wrote:



From this week's AW&ST

"Air Force May Form Strategic Command"


Would that also be known as "Strategic Air Command" with the
associated acronym of SAC?

Actually, it is a review of the "unified" command structure,
considering combining of the recently established Northern Command
with the long existing Southern Command to form a sort of N/S
America
continental command. Other unified commands include Eucom, Pacom
and
Centcom for examples.

Strategic Air Command was a "specified" command which gave it a
separate status from the operational control of the unified
commands.
The other specified command was MAC.

Specified commands still exist as well; FORSCOM in the Army, and I
believe
ACC would qualify in the USAF.

Brooks

Partially true Brooks. Specified Commands still exist in theory, they
are
part of the Unified Command Plan, but there are none of them "stood
up".
Look at the link below for an explanation of the current structure.

http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/unifiedcommand/

Cheers,

Actually, I am a bit familiar with that site, but to my knowledge it
says
nothing about specified commands existing only in 'theory". FORSCOM
remains
a specified command, and IIRC like some other specified commands (i.e.,
ACC), it also serves as the component command HQ for Unified Commands as
required (i.e., NORTHCOM). Unified commands are nothing new, and AFAIK
nothing has yet written the demise of the specified commands that have
existed alongside them (or more accurately, depending upon the current
situation, under them).

Brooks

Brooks,

There are no specified commands. The only two specified commands, to my
knowledge and I was involved with this on a working basis from 1981 until
1997, were Strategic Air Command and Military Airlift Command.

Odd. "On July 1, 1987, as the result of the DOD reorganization directed by
the Goldwater-Nichols Act, FORSCOM became a specified command..."
(www.globalsecurity.org/military/ agency/army/forscom.htm ). In actuality
though, you are partly correct--FORSCOM gave up its specified command status
a few years later, in 1993 (http://www.forscom.army.mil/info/history.htm).
So it appears that at least one other specified command was around during
that period you referred to.


These units
ceased to be specified commands in the late 80's early 90's during a DoD
reorginization bringing the structure in compliance with the
Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986 which ammended the National Security Act of
1947. As you know, Strategic Air Command ceased to exist and Military Air
Command exists today as Air Mobility Command, a USAF command and the AF
component of USTRANSCOM, a unified command. Since that time, there have
been no specified commands as defined by the Unified Command Plan.

That would be the same Goldwater-Nichols Act that made FORSCOM a specified
command...? FORSCOM's own site notes that the act you cite was what *made*
them a specified command for some six years.


Unified Commands do not have subordinate "specified commands". Their
subordinate commands are called sub-unified commands. A good example of
this is the relationship between PACOM and and United States Forces Korea.


Air Combat Command is not a specified command and never has been even when
it was Tactical Air Command. FORSCOM is not currently a specified command
but I can't say for certain that it never has been. Currently, and for
the
last, at least, dozen years, FORSCOM is the Army component of U.S. Joint
Forces Command, a unified command. The purpose of ACC and FORSCOM is to
man,
train, equip, and furnish forces to combatant commanders as established by
the Unified Command Plan. They have other responsibilities as well, but
those are the main ones for this conversation. The commanders of ACC and
FORSCOM are not combatant commanders and do not carry the title of
Commander
in Chief (CINC), as do commanders of unified commands. Those commands are
Air Force and Army commands, not United States commands, and as such do
not
fight wars. ACC and FORSCOM units are CHOPped (Change of Op Control) to
unified commands for hostile action. The units are CHOPped back to the
service command at the discretion of the unified CINC.

Not quite completely accurate. Go to the FORSCOM pages I have already
provided you and you will see that FORSCOM is indeed the SCC HQ for both
JFCOM and NORTHCOM. Other than those two unified commands, you are correct
in stating that FORSCOM would merely provide units (as it does with CENTCOM,
FORSCOM's Third Army being the SCC HQ). And don't get too tangled up in the
"only unified commanders can be combatant commanders" bit..."Combatant
commands can be either specified or unified commands, though the nine
currently established are all unified commands."
(www.cadre.maxwell.af.mil/warfarestudies/ wpc/wpc_txt/org_nss/combc.htm )


Much of the knowledge I have on this subject came from attending Air
Command
and Staff College, attending Joint Forces Staff College, and completing
National War College by correspondence. I also served on the Joint Staff
from 1992-1995 where, for a time, I was the DoD/JS lead on a tempest in a
teapot with STRATCOM over OPCON of the NEACP (now the NAOC). This issue
involved me deeply in the Unified Command Plan and we successfully fought
off the STRATCOM attempt to wrest control of the NEACP from the JS (which
operated the E-4B for the SECDEF). I think now STRATCOM does own the
NAOC,
c'est la guerre! (sp) ;-) Due to this experience and training, I was
nominated and selected as a Joint Staff Officer. Not trying to toot any
horns here, just establishing credentials.

Hey, you would be correct, as far as I can determine, in stating that
FORSCOM is no longer a specified command; my mistake. However, you appear to
be off-base with your notion that FORSCOM does not also serve as the service
component command HQ for a couple of unified commands, or that SAC and MAC
were the *only* specified commands that existed during the period you noted,
so I'd be a bit wary of doing much tooting... :-).

Brooks


More information on the subject is available online from the Joint Forces
Staff College, JFSC Pub 1. In particular, Page 1-29 para (4)(b) which
states in part "...There are currently no specified commands but the
option
to create such a command still exists." That's why I said they exist "in
theory" in my previous post. The entire Pub 1 is available at the link
below. You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader to look at it.


http://www.jfsc.ndu.edu/current_stud...pub_1_2000.pdf

Best Regards,

JB