"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...

"Geoffrey Sinclair" wrote in message
. au...
"Ray O'Hara" wrote in message
...

The 109 was better than the Hurricane and the Spit and 109 were
basically equals. the Spit is prettier
British aerial victory claims are vastly exagerated in the BoB.

During the Battle of Britain the RAF over claimed by about 2 to 1.
If that is vastly exaggerated what does the Luftwaffe over claim of
3 to 1 for fighter kills and overall up to 5 to 1 when you count
bomber claims, rate as? The RAF fighter force over claims over
France in 1941, also up to 5 to 1? The USAAF heavy bomber gunner
over claims were even higher, if 2 to 1 is vastly exaggerated what is
the description for the bomber gunners?

Generally the rule was the fewer the number of aircraft the more
deadly the fight and the more accurate the claims, the larger the
number of aircraft the safer the fight and the less accurate the
claims. Hence the 12 Group Big Wing looked far more impressive
at the time than it was.

The reputation of the Spitfire started early, 1 July to 31 October
1940 the German fighter pilots claimed 1,266 Spitfires and 719
Hurricanes, something approaching the reverse of the 2 Hurricanes
to 1 Spitfire present in Fighter Command.

Bombers would overclaim because several bombers would claim the same kill.
one wonders how much damge B-17s did to each other.
especially the waist gunners.

Since you describe over claiming by 2 to 1 as "vastly exaggerated"
could you please indicate what 3 to 1, 5 to 1 and more than 5 to 1
should be described as.

When I did a basic check of cause of loss of B-17s in the 8th Air
Force something like 3 were listed as lost to other B-17s. How
many USAAF were damaged by fellow bomber's gunners is rather
hard to determine, given the damage done by the German fighters
that caused the bomber gunners to open fire in the first place.

Geoffrey Sinclair
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