Since several questions have been sent to my email regarding the program I
am in I am adding a link regarding it! GOTO:

http://www.mcso.org/submenu.asp?file=posse

Cheers and stay safe out there!

Ed


"Ed Ortiz" wrote in message
news:n9h6b.17644$n94.7571@fed1read04...
The issue LE vs Civilian pilots have a lot to be argued. I do want to say
that I think it will go all to the amount of training and experience the
pilot has regardless his law enforcement experience. They can always
learn
the LE side! I am a volunteer for the local Aviation Sheriff Dept. Our
county has a program that will allow civilians to be "deputized" to help
in
law enforcement operations.

I have been with the local aviation unit several years and I can tell you
that the line that separates the duties of the pilot and the tactical
officer are very distinct. We have in our unit pilot LE officers and
civilians. Both have performed excellent since they are experienced
(minimum requirement of 1500 hours turbine to apply for insurance
purposes!). I do have to say that all the law enforcement duties rely on
the tactical officer and not the pilot (if he is civilian). The pilot
duties in my unit stay with maintaining positive control of the aircraft
while I direct him to where I want to (orbit, direction to a call, etc.).
You are to busy hearing ATC. If the pilot is LE, then it is better but it
does not mean the job cannot be done. As a tac officer in the law
enforcement role I am the one getting out of the helo in case of any
emergencies. The pilot will take off back and stay with the aircraft (on
the radio) unless necessary to come out.

Our program runs all civilian volunteers by the same weapon
qualifications,
background investigations, and a modified academy to accomodate all
legalities. All tactical oficers are armed, pilots have the option of
carrying a handgun or not! They do have to qualify with it at the range if
they want to carry.

The difference is that I only have arrest powers when on duty and
"supervised" by an LE officer. In some states like in TX is like been a
level three reserve officer. Some of our pilots are not qualified to
carry
a gun while on duty. Of course the duties in an emergency will vary.

I think a big difference is in the way the unit implement their SOP's and
training. I do have to say, must of our volunteer pilots are x-military
(with zillions of flight time) or are still flying for private companies
(air evac, MD, etc!). Politics are going to happen everywhere so you deal
with those as appropriate.

Our only requirement for civilians is to make a minimum of 8 hours (1
shift)
a month. Everybody is happy, the deputies get their backup and we get the
fun!

I will like to hear of any other Rotary Aviation Support unit made of
civilian volunteers. For along time I thought we where the "only ones",
now
I am not sure!

Ed Ortiz


"Eric Scheie" wrote in message
...

"One side of the COIN" wrote in message
...
Davdirect wrote:

Then why require the law enforcement training? Wouldn't it be wiser
to
have an
experienced pilot than to have an experienced cop who has minimal
hours?

Yes that would be a good presumption.

However the politics of the situation come into play.

If you were a police officer in any city, what would your attitude be
if you knew that you could never be the chief of police, a dog
handler,
a supervisor, a trainer, the head of the union, a dispatcher, or
even a helicopter pilot, in your own police department.


Hiring experienced pilots off the street should not necessarily preclude
anyone from within the department from becoming pilots themselves and
moving
into the aviation unit. Of those jobs listed (dog handler, dispatcher,
etc),
how many require the level of training of a pilot? It's a bit of an
apples
and oranges comparison.

On the issue of the responsibility of carrying a gun vs flying an
aircraft:
I agree, both come with a lot of responsibility. However, the tone of
some
of the posts here indicate that some consider it more important for a
police
pilot to have experience carrying a gun than actually flying an
aircraft.
A
very myopic and dangerous view. I would ask the question, how many times
do
the pilots in any given police air unit find themselves in need of their
weapon? For instance, I often see road signs stating "Speed Limit
Enforced
By Aircraft", however, I have yet to see any police aircraft pull
someone
over, land, shut down, police officer pilot get out, and write a ticket.
I
can see possible scenarios where a pilot might land and let the observer
get
out and make/assist with an arrest.

Flying with two pilots (vice a pilot and an observer) would allow for a
less
experienced pilot to learn from those with more experience, and they may
find themselves in a situation where one might need a gun. However, for
those flying single pilot with an observer, a more experienced pilot is
going to make for a safer operation. Put yourself in an observer's
shoes,
would you rather fly with pilot with maybe 250-300 hours who just got
their
commerical rating, or a pilot with 2000 hours? Ask the taxpayers who
they
want flying their aircraft.


"One side of the COIN" Later went on to say:

If you were a police department what would you rather have.......

An experienced police officer who knew the lay of the land, had worked
the streets, understood exactly what was going on, and had been
trained to fly a helicopter as a police officer pilot.

OR...... An experienced helicopter pilot who had never made an arrest,
worked the streets, or knew what the boys and girls actually went
through down there on the ground...... but was now a sworn in police
officer with a gun at his hip.

What experience is more important to the police department.


As has been stated in this thread, politics, more than anything, drives
the
decision about who becomes a police pilot. Unfortunately, politics and
policies are often controlled by people with little to no knowledge of
aviation.

One law enforcement agency that hires people to be pilots is the US
Customs
Service. Yes, you attend their academy (16 weeks, I think), become a
sworn
officer, and carry a gun. Then you go straight to an aviation unit.
There
is
nothing that states that a Customs officer could not become a pilot, if
they
meet the flight time minimums.

I think it could be argued effectively that an experienced pilot,
especially
one with a military background (no slight intended toward civilian
pilots),
could learn a patrolman's job faster than a patrolman could become a
pilot's. Some in this thread may disagree, but I'll stand by my
statement.