GA headed for regulatory trouble

But -- mark my words -- all it will take is ONE successful attack using
a GA plane, and there WILL be a "No Fly Zone" around D.C.
Snipola

Which will prove what we've been saying all along, that the ADIZ
does NOTHING to secure the area.

I'm afraid GA is in a no-win situation, outside of the political arena.

- If we bitch about the ADIZ being ineffective, the Feds may actually listen
and take note, and impose harsher restrictions.

- If we DON'T bitch about the ADIZ, it may become permanent...

- If the ADIZ is violated (as it is, almost daily), this proves to the
general public that we GA pilots are a bunch of idiots who cannot
navigate...

- If there is an actual terrorist attack using GA planes inside the ADIZ, we
will have proven that the ADIZ was ineffective -- and lost everything.

Our only hope, IMHO, at this point is to:

1. Maintain political pressure, through AOPA, EAA, and individual efforts.
2. Exert peer pressure on our flying peers, to educate themselves and STOP
BUSTING THE ADIZ.
3. Make sure that our airports -- and, specifically, our airplanes -- are
secure from theft.
4. Keep your fingers crossed that all of these actions (plus whatever unseen
actions our government security forces are taking) result in there being NO
terrorist attacks utilizing GA planes.

If these four things come together, I think eventually the ADIZ and TFRs
will go away. If any one of those four thing DON'T come together, the ADIZ
is here to stay -- or worse.

It's a shame, but it's just the way it is.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

And you sir are a fine example of why this country is falling apart,
with that attitude.

An interesting observation, Brian -- but I haven't heard any alternatives
from you, yet.

What do you suggest?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

You continue to miss the whole point of where this thread went. It's not
a
question of whether we ought to obey the existing restrictions. It's a
question of whether we ought to sit by and just let the restrictions
happen
without complaint.

Thank you for putting it succinctly and bluntly.

Sadly, as usual, Peter "put it" neither succinctly nor bluntly. In fact, he
missed the point entirely.

We should be protesting the airspace restrictions at every level of
government possible -- short of busting the ADIZ. At no point have I
suggested otherwise; I have merely explained the utterly logical rationale
behind the imposition of airspace restrictions after 9/11.

The fact that I apparently must explain the reasons for the restrictions
quite frankly scares me.

Here's the bottom line: It matters not if the ADIZ is truly effective -- it
is PERCEIVED by the general public as effective. Those who fail to
understand the reasons for the restrictions have NO chance of getting them
rescinded. You can keep calling a duck a chicken, but the rest of the world
will just think your dumb -- and the duck will continue on as if nothing has
happened. You will have done nothing to further your cause without
understanding the opposition.

Pilots who continue to bust the ADIZ are individually -- and with malice --
signing our death warrant. If we're going to fight this thing, we're going
to have to be smarter than their actions would indicate we are -- and THAT
is the real tragedy here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
SNIP
- If the ADIZ is violated (as it is, almost daily), this proves to the
general public that we GA pilots are a bunch of idiots who cannot
navigate...
SNIP
2. Exert peer pressure on our flying peers, to educate themselves and STOP
BUSTING THE ADIZ.

You only hear about the "big" busts. What about the fairly frequent
"busts" that are not the pilots fault at all. These are usually caused by
equipment problems (air and ground), controller mistakes, NORAD and
Customs mistakes, etc.



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

And you sir are a fine example of why this country is falling apart, with
that attitude.

An interesting observation, Brian -- but I haven't heard any alternatives
from you, yet.

What do you suggest?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,
I am afraid there is nothing you can say to make some folks see things.
We all know there are those that think standing around holding hands and
singing Kumbaya will keep us from ever having an attack here again. The ADIZ
is here and I think to stay. Wish it were not so. In order to put a stop to
it I would suggest these folks use all of this anger and energy about the
situation to really do something about it. I am sure the US military would
love to have that pent up emotion unleashed on the enemy on a battlefield.
Talking to a Congressman probably will not do much, join the military and
destroy the enemy so it's no longer thought to be needed. Just a thought!
Good Luck on your debate Jay!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Rmcze.130414$_o.74441@attbi_s71...
You continue to miss the whole point of where this thread went. It's not
a
question of whether we ought to obey the existing restrictions. It's a
question of whether we ought to sit by and just let the restrictions
happen
without complaint.

Thank you for putting it succinctly and bluntly.

Sadly, as usual, Peter "put it" neither succinctly nor bluntly. In fact,
he missed the point entirely.

We should be protesting the airspace restrictions at every level of
government possible -- short of busting the ADIZ. At no point have I
suggested otherwise; I have merely explained the utterly logical rationale
behind the imposition of airspace restrictions after 9/11.

The fact that I apparently must explain the reasons for the restrictions
quite frankly scares me.

Here's the bottom line: It matters not if the ADIZ is truly effective --
it is PERCEIVED by the general public as effective. Those who fail to
understand the reasons for the restrictions have NO chance of getting them
rescinded. You can keep calling a duck a chicken, but the rest of the
world will just think your dumb -- and the duck will continue on as if
nothing has happened. You will have done nothing to further your cause
without understanding the opposition.

Pilots who continue to bust the ADIZ are individually -- and with
malice -- signing our death warrant. If we're going to fight this thing,
we're going to have to be smarter than their actions would indicate we
are -- and THAT is the real tragedy here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Masino" wrote


You only hear about the "big" busts. What about the fairly frequent
"busts" that are not the pilots fault at all. These are usually caused by
equipment problems (air and ground), controller mistakes, NORAD and
Customs mistakes, etc.

Name one, in the last six months, or whenever.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
Name one, in the last six months, or whenever.

They happen all the time. All you have to do is monitor one or more of
the DC-specific aviation discussion groups for a few months.


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...
Morgans wrote:
Name one, in the last six months, or whenever.

They happen all the time. All you have to do is monitor one or more of
the DC-specific aviation discussion groups for a few months.

Ones that involved something more than not checking all available info, on a
timely basis? What type of general scenarios?
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" wrote in news:fdcze.129405
$x96.25583@attbi_s72:

And you sir are a fine example of why this country is falling apart,
with that attitude.

An interesting observation, Brian -- but I haven't heard any alternatives
from you, yet.

What do you suggest?

I am willing to admit that I do not have a solution.

Your post about the four things that need to come together could
be a good starting point for a possible solution.

What peeves me about your posts is that you come across with the
general attitude of 'since that's the way things are you should just
accept it regardless of it being wrong or right, that there's no
point fighting it.' That's an attitude that I feel is too prevelant
in American society and I feel it has allowed those on top of the
pile to stomp on the little guys down below a little too much.

America is supposed to be a country of laws, a country of majority
rule with minority rights. But when things go astray from that ideal
it is the obligation of the citizens to stand up and make a stink
about things until the situation is corrected. 'going with the flow'
and 'not making waves' and 'just learning to live with it' will not
accomplish that.

The current discussion about the ADIZ is just one example of how
the country is faltering from the the ideal.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

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