Hurricane relief

Happy Dog wrote:
rote it.)

moo

How about this reply to "Invictus" by Orson F. Whitney?

The Soul's Captain

Art thou in truth? Then what of Him
Who bought thee with His blood?
Who plunged into devouring seas
And snatched thee from the flood,

Who bore for all our fallen race
What none but Him could bear--
That God who died that man might live
And endless glory share.

Of what avail thy vaunted strength
Apart from His vast might?
Pray that His light may pierce the gloom
That thou mayest see aright.

Men are as bubbles on the wave,
As leaves upon the tree.
Thou, captain of thy soul! Forsooth,
Who gave that place to thee?

Free will is thine -- free agency,
To wield for right or wrong:
But thou must answerunto Him
To whom all souls belong.

Bend to the dust that "head unbowed,"
Small part of life's great whole,
And see in Him and Him alone,
The captain of thy soul.

------

Now, perhaps you are irreligious, and do not believe in free will. I
would grant you the right to believe and do as you see best. The poem
still makes its point, even if speaking of God in a figurative sense.
By what right has anyone to claim that they are the captain of their
soul? Or perhaps you believe in no god, but believe in free will. On
what basis then do you believe in free will? If, in the end, we are all
space dust, what does it matter what any of us do, or think, or say? We
then are but passing mites upon a vast and infinite stage. No one then
cares what you or I think, or whether we were the captains of our
souls. You may as well ask the rocks their opinion of race, or the
stars what they think of cabbages.

And, in any event, O captain of your soul, what of parents or teachers
or all others who have helped you along throughout your life? Are you
truly independent? Were you born without parents? Fed without farmers?
Clothed without textile workers? Housed without lumberjacks?

W P Dixon wrote:
OK CJ,
I believe in my first post was....
Guys and Gals,
Take a moment tonight for thoughts and prayers for the folks on the Gulf
coast. Winds are now 160 knots. To our newsgroupers in the Mobile area I
sure hope yall have gotten out of Dodge. Let's all hope that things won't be
as bad as everyone is saying. Please do what you can to help the victims, I
am sure lots of our help will be needed and greatly appreciated.

--
Patrick Dixon
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


I do not see one word about letting people die in there, looks to me like I
am asking for everyone to help however they can. I also do not see anything
in there about people's skin color , nationality, nor financial situation.

Neither did I say anything about that. What makes you think I attacked
you on those grounds?

I
do not feel I need the Federal Gov, robbing me of my paycheck on useless
crap programs that do not work. I do believe that a man with any kind of
feeling towards humanity does not need big brother to say he has to help
someone. I try to help anyone I can. And I do not only do it when a disaster
strikes. I do feel if the gov laid off everyones income, more money would be
used to help others than what can be done through the tax and give programs.

Where have I disagreed with you on any of this?


Being a free nation does not mean and never has meant a free ride,...if
it does then we all need to stop working because alot of folks are being
cheated out of freedom I think you need to make exceptions for your
theory.


Where I did say that being a free nation means a free ride?

Please do not misrepresent what I say. I say that there are too few
people who recognize their interdependence on one another, that there
are too many dependent types waiting for their mommies and daddies to
take care of them and too many independent types who don't think they
have a responsibility to anyone else. Can you really disagree with that?

"cjcampbell"

crap

The gods of organized religions couldn't sit down with a small committee of
the people they claim to rule and decide what to eat for breakfast. It's a
crock.

Now, perhaps you are irreligious, and do not believe in free will. I
would grant you the right to believe and do as you see best. The poem
still makes its point, even if speaking of God in a figurative sense.
By what right has anyone to claim that they are the captain of their
soul? Or perhaps you believe in no god, but believe in free will. On
what basis then do you believe in free will? If, in the end, we are all
space dust, what does it matter what any of us do, or think, or say?

It matters to ourselves and to each other. Clearly. No god is required to
validate the existence of anything.

then are but passing mites upon a vast and infinite stage. No one then
cares what you or I think, or whether we were the captains of our
souls. You may as well ask the rocks their opinion of race, or the
stars what they think of cabbages.

You really do love this obtuse crap when trying to make a point. In this
case, it's that life's worthless without the fighting hairy thunderer show.
That's clearly untrue as evidenced by the millions who do not believe in a
personal god that meddles in daily affairs or explains why girraffes have
long necks.

And, in any event, O captain of your soul, what of parents or teachers
or all others who have helped you along throughout your life? Are you
truly independent? Were you born without parents? Fed without farmers?
Clothed without textile workers? Housed without lumberjacks?

No. I chose to avail myself of their knowledge and aid and they were
compensated for it. Or, they did it for their own reasons. I wasn't a
parasite. And I see nothing inconsistent with living a mostly independent
life and happiness for oneself and friends.

Some people are lost without a personal god. And they're not all bad. But
most that argue that others should be drive me nuts when they use their
faith to **** on those who don't believe in the same cosmic muffin or one at
all.

moo

Happy Dog wrote:
"cjcampbell"

crap

The gods of organized religions couldn't sit down with a small committee of
the people they claim to rule and decide what to eat for breakfast. It's a
crock.


Gosh, makes you wonder how I manage to tie my own shoes in the morning.


It matters to ourselves and to each other. Clearly. No god is required to
validate the existence of anything.

Did I say that? Look, either you are the creation of a god or you are
the product of the laws of an immutable universe. Either way, you get
no credit (or blame) for who or what you are. You had nothing to do
with it. Or did you have a rational alternative? (I can think of at
least one, but I want to hear yours.)

..

You really do love this obtuse crap when trying to make a point.

I do love it so.


And, in any event, O captain of your soul, what of parents or teachers
or all others who have helped you along throughout your life? Are you
truly independent? Were you born without parents? Fed without farmers?
Clothed without textile workers? Housed without lumberjacks?

No. I chose to avail myself of their knowledge and aid and they were
compensated for it. Or, they did it for their own reasons. I wasn't a
parasite. And I see nothing inconsistent with living a mostly independent
life and happiness for oneself and friends.

Some people are lost without a personal god. And they're not all bad. But
most that argue that others should be drive me nuts when they use their
faith to **** on those who don't believe in the same cosmic muffin or one at
all.

I often feel much the same way. In fact, everyone who disagrees with me
should be destroyed. :-)

Of course, I drive every day in Philippine traffic. If that doesn't
make a believer out of you, nothing will.

In fact, you ought to come to the Philippines. You might like it here.
The government is too incompetent to collect its taxes effectively. No
one enforces any laws. Heck, the mayor in this town shot his vice mayor
last year, and no one has even said "boo." Driving at night can be a
bit spooky, what with about half the vehicles having no lights at all
and a majority of the rest either having no tail lights or long ago
they switched them with the brake lights or the backup lights or maybe
just hung some Christmas lights across the back. Some of those vehicles
will be oxcarts or horse buggies, some will be "tricycles," little
scooters with sidecars supposedly licensed by the city but without any
safety features whatsoever. The rest will be trucks, buses, and cars
driven by people who are suffering from terminal road rage. And
jeepneys. It is illegal for any vehicle to be unpainted or chrome in
color, so of course that is the predominant color of jeepneys,
tricycles and trucks. They might have bald tires. They might not have
brakes. They probably don't have lights. But they will have chrome
paint jobs, a gazillion antennae, and about three times as many
passengers as you could imagine cramming in there.

The only stop light in town is sponsored by a brewery. All the traffic
signs are paid for and sponsored by local businesses. There is no
standardization on signs, but no one pays any attention to them anyway.
The lane markings are there for decoration only. If I stop at the stop
light (and they have three cops there to make sure the stop light is
obeyed) and I am the first in line, by the time the stop light turns
green I will be seventh in line at least. Everyone just sneaks around
you on both sides to get in front of you until the whole intersection
is filled up with stoplight snudgers. The road in front of your house,
if you have both a road and a house, is paved only if you paid for it.
Advertising regulations? How about this: "Colt .45 Malt Liquor -- Cool
sa driving!" A malt liquor that actually advertises that it improves
your driving! It might, too. I really wonder how I work up the nerve to
drive on these roads while stone sober.

One thing I don't understand. If the country is so desperately poor,
with a per capita income of $600/year, why is it that traffic jams make
it practically impossible to drive across town, and why are there no
parking spaces?

Want a gun? Technically illegal, but everyone carries them anyway. I
can get you a nice .50 cal. machine gun if you want. Or hand grenades.
Maybe even your own private tank. And with no cops, you can just blow
anybody away if you don't like their looks. Happens all the time here.
In fact, if you are driving and hit a pedestrian, you better be
carrying a gun. Otherwise the bystanders will drag you from the car and
beat you to death with rocks.

If you get hit by a bus, you better try to get away. Bus drivers who
run over pedestrians have to pay their medical expenses, But if the
driver kills a pedestrian, he only has to pay for the funeral. So if he
only injures someone, he has huge financial incentive to run over him
again! And they do, too. A couple of our missionaries saw a bus hit a
small child. The driver got out, saw the kid was still alive, so he got
into his bus and backed over him.

If someone is so stupid as to lend you money, you don't have to pay it
back! Just have your hired thugs threaten to kill him and his whole
family if he demands payment. Hired thugs are cheap, too. The going
rate for a murder for hire is about P10,000, or $150.

Getting clear title for your house is a problem. Since no one wants to
pay taxes, no one ever bothers to record real estate transactions. The
landlord collecting your rent may or not own your home, how would you
know? No matter, if someone else comes along and starts asking for back
rent, there are always the hired thugs. Of course, he has hired thugs,
too.

On the upside, you can live a like a king for almost nothing here. You
can have a nice house, a car, the best food, and good servants for less
than $2,000/month. The scenery is fantastic and the people are very
friendly, as long as you don't offend someone and he sends his thugs
after you. :-) If you need medication for anything, drug stores rarely
bother with asking for your prescription and sometimes they actually
have what you need on hand. No FDA here, either. You can buy potions or
devices that will increase your height, bust size, whatever -- they
advertise them on TV. You want Crest toothpaste? Well, they have tubes
that say Crest on them. Maybe some of them have Crest toothpaste in
them, maybe not.

McDonald's serves spaghetti, with tomato sauce made of catsup. Well
maybe that isn't a plus. But you can get even their largest meal for
less than $2. But why bother? For that kind of money some restaurants
will serve a 7 course meal and have a waiter that stands behind your
chair the whole time, waiting to do your slightest bidding. Even
Shakey's has waiters like that.

Because you are an American, everyone will call you "Sir." People will
ask you your opinion and they will believe it! You learn real quick not
to say much, because everyone wants to be an American. So they imitate
you constantly. Of course, most of what people around here know about
America is what they get from watching the news or American sitcoms on
TV, which is kind of scary when you think about it. It is a good thing
there aren't any 1920's gangster shows any more, or the whole country
would look like an episode of "The Untouchables."

Come on up to Laoag and I'll show you around.

Long, scary stuff snipped

Come on up to Laoag and I'll show you around.

Tell me, why are you there again, CJ? The place sounds pretty hopeless.

Well, except for the servants and stuff....

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
.. .
"cjcampbell"

If I have mistated my case, show me the rugged individualists posting
here who have suggested lifting even one finger to help out the
hurricane victims. To the contrary, they began by complaining the
misuse of "their" money and resources for this task, and have suggested
it would just be better to let them die.

I have acted alone and privately. At least I'll know where the money's
going. Others might quite correctly feel they've been screwed enough and
find it distasteful that, having created millions, in many cases, for the
government to use, now are being asked to give more.

Forget CJ; he's a fascist Pat Robertson wannabe

Tom Six

Forget CJ; he's a fascist Pat Robertson wannabe

That is not my experience, having read his postings over the last
several years.
I have never heard him preach on this usegroup.
I would not even categorize any of his posting on the recent topics as
being predominantly religious or zealous.

Doof wrote:
Forget CJ; he's a fascist Pat Robertson wannabe

Odd. I can't stand Mr. Robertson. Or fascism. Or you.

I invoke Godwin's law.

"cjcampbell" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doof wrote:
Forget CJ; he's a fascist Pat Robertson wannabe

Odd. I can't stand Mr. Robertson.

Funny, you're his philosophic twin.

Or fascism.

Funny, you don't invoke fascism directly (by name) but so much you've
written stems right out of Mussolini and Rocco (conrol over peoples personal
lives, mixed economy...).

Or you.

From a slug like you, that's certainly something I can live _very well_
with.


I invoke Godwin's law.

Fine, but the description fits.

Tom S. wrote:
"cjcampbell" wrote in message
oups.com...

Doof wrote:
Forget CJ; he's a fascist Pat Robertson wannabe

Odd. I can't stand Mr. Robertson.

Funny, you're his philosophic twin.


I think you would be hard pressed to demonstrate that.

Or fascism.

Funny, you don't invoke fascism directly (by name) but so much you've
written stems right out of Mussolini and Rocco (conrol over peoples personal
lives, mixed economy...).


I think you would be unable to demonstrate that, either. I have no
interest in control over people's personal lives. If believing in a
mixed economy is proof of fascism, then nearly everyone is a fascist,
for nearly everyone believes in some sort of government regulation.
Even the Libertarians.


Or you.

From a slug like you, that's certainly something I can live _very well_
with.


I invoke Godwin's law.

Fine, but the description fits.


And you still lose the argument. Godwin's law has been invoked. The
thread ends.