IFR in the Eastern Mountains

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Macklin [mailto Posted At: Friday, November 03, 2006 4:10 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: IFR in the Eastern Mountains
Subject: IFR in the Eastern Mountains

... are also a lot of flat landers who die in Arkansas.


I don't remember exactly when, but in the '70s or early '80s PGO just
West of KMEZ was renamed from Page VOR to Rich Mountain VOR. A voice
message was added to the Morse identifier -- Caution, rapidly rising
terrain... The identifier remained the same however.

This was specifically in response to the growing aluminum content on the
Southern slope of that hill. The terrain to the South is relatively flat
and then all of a sudden the Kiamichi Mountains jump almost straight up
in a very short lateral distance. We never thought about it because
traveling from the North you already had to account for the Ozarks and
the Boston Mountains; Rich was just one more hill to cross.

I was in Mena last Saturday and had a chance to fly over that terrain
for the first time in about 20 years. It still looks like hills, and at
this time of year - beautiful hills.

I remember that the name change happened while I was in
Tulsa attending Spartan, mid 70s.




"Jim Carter" wrote in message
news:001a01c6ffa0$d7da0e40$4001a8c0@omnibook6100.. .
|
|
| -----Original Message-----
| From: Jim Macklin
[mailto | Posted At: Friday, November 03, 2006 4:10 PM
| Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
| Conversation: IFR in the Eastern Mountains
| Subject: IFR in the Eastern Mountains
|
| ... are also a lot of flat landers who die in Arkansas.
|
|
| I don't remember exactly when, but in the '70s or early
'80s PGO just
| West of KMEZ was renamed from Page VOR to Rich Mountain
VOR. A voice
| message was added to the Morse identifier -- Caution,
rapidly rising
| terrain... The identifier remained the same however.
|
| This was specifically in response to the growing aluminum
content on the
| Southern slope of that hill. The terrain to the South is
relatively flat
| and then all of a sudden the Kiamichi Mountains jump
almost straight up
| in a very short lateral distance. We never thought about
it because
| traveling from the North you already had to account for
the Ozarks and
| the Boston Mountains; Rich was just one more hill to
cross.
|
| I was in Mena last Saturday and had a chance to fly over
that terrain
| for the first time in about 20 years. It still looks like
hills, and at
| this time of year - beautiful hills.
|

We often top moutains over 14,000.
-Robert

I love the Rockies, Sierra and Cascades and readily admit they are
more spectacular than our Appalacians, as well as higher.

However, I've flown to the West Coast several times and to Alaska
twice and I NEVER had to "top mountains over 14,000."

IIRC, one can fly from PA to AK without ever getting above 8,000' msl.
And that is over the relatively flat (though high) land of southern
Wyoming.

Perhaps you need to learn to fly BETWEEN the mountains. ((:-))

vince norris

Robert M. Gary wrote:

The subject line made me laugh. I'm from out West. When I took my kids
to Mt Vernon, they asked me "Dad, why do they call it 'Mt'?". "See
that little hill over there?...". We often top moutains over 14,000.
-Robert


My experience is that can't be done safely (or easily) on a consistant
basis without turbine engines and pressurization. Do you do it differently?

Jim Macklin wrote:

There are as many dead pilots from hitting steeply rising
terrain from Georgia to Maine as die west of Denver. There
are also a lot of flat landers who die in Arkansas. It
isn't the altitude, it is the suddenness of the mountain and
whether the pilot is really thinking about it being a hump,
ridge, hill or mountain?

TWA 514 comes to mind.

: IIRC, one can fly from PA to AK without ever getting above 8,000' msl.
: And that is over the relatively flat (though high) land of southern
: Wyoming.

I flew from VA to AK and could have done it without ever having to fly over 6000'.

: Perhaps you need to learn to fly BETWEEN the mountains. ((:-))

That'll do it.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:
: IIRC, one can fly from PA to AK without ever getting above 8,000' msl.
: And that is over the relatively flat (though high) land of southern
: Wyoming.

Could you please provide the routing for 8000 from PA to AK and for 6000
from VA to AK.

You are providing a specific without providing the details.


I flew from VA to AK and could have done it without ever having to fly over 6000'.

: Perhaps you need to learn to fly BETWEEN the mountains. ((:-))

That'll do it.

-Cory

Sam Spade wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

The subject line made me laugh. I'm from out West. When I took my kids
to Mt Vernon, they asked me "Dad, why do they call it 'Mt'?". "See
that little hill over there?...". We often top moutains over 14,000.
-Robert


My experience is that can't be done safely (or easily) on a consistant
basis without turbine engines and pressurization. Do you do it differently?

My Mooney rides happy between 16,000 and 17,000 feet. No
pressurization, just O2. 14,000 are peaks. Of course I've never tried
it IFR. My IFR route is to cross into the LA basin via Blythe and then
up Gorman area, or if ice is a real issue up the coastal airway to SF.
However, its very rare to find ice over Gorman and solid IMC over the
Sierras. Maybe a few days a year you get that type of wx. Storms don't
sit around long in California and they're usually easily predictable.

-Robert


-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:


My Mooney rides happy between 16,000 and 17,000 feet. No
pressurization, just O2. 14,000 are peaks. Of course I've never tried
it IFR. My IFR route is to cross into the LA basin via Blythe and then
up Gorman area, or if ice is a real issue up the coastal airway to SF.
However, its very rare to find ice over Gorman and solid IMC over the
Sierras. Maybe a few days a year you get that type of wx. Storms don't
sit around long in California and they're usually easily predictable.

-Robert

I know all those routes and areas very well. As you know there isn't
any Victor airway that crosses the crest of the High Sierra at its
higher area. One jet route does (J-110) but it often is not available
because of R-2508.

The highest non-jet routes in that area are the two terminal routes onto
the KBIH VOR-A IAP. Those are deadly when the weather is bad in that
area. The routing from the north onto the KBIH VOR/DME-B is far more
forgiving.

I just don't know where I would want to take on the Sierras in a light
aircraft when the GMN/LHS area is iced up and IMC.

Could you please provide the routing for 8000 from PA to AK and for 6000
from VA to AK.

From PA, west to the Rockies. Rock Springs, Wyoming, airport, just
slightly above 7,000 msl, was the highest along our route, but the
terrain is flat. In mountainous terrain we followed Interstates or
major highways; they are built through low, wide, valleys. And they
provide a place to land if necessary.

Next stop Helena, Montana. Then to Lethbridge, Red Deer, Grande
Prairie, and Dawson Creek, Alberta, where the Alaka Highway begins.
From there to Fairbanks, Alaska. The highest point on the AK Highway
is slightly above 4,000 msl.

For different scenery on one trip we went farther west to Spokane,
then north up the Okanogan Valley to Kamloops, St. George and
Smithers, B.C., then up the Cassier Highway to Watson Lake. From there
we followed the Alaska Highway to Whitehorse, then we turned north to
Dawson City, Yukon. From there to Fairbanks. Then down to Talkeetna
and Anchorage.

The scenery, btw, even more spectacular along the Cassiar Highway than
along the Alaska Highway.

I might be mistaken, but I don't believe we had to get above 8,000 on
that trip, either. I can assure you we didn't have to "top any 14,000
foot peaks." Two of us, neither of us midgets, and the required
survival gear put us near gross in a PA28-161 Warrior. We couldn't
possibly have got to 14,000 msl.

vince norris