Cold Weather Flying

By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes.

Is that -13 F? If so, I've flown at that temperature, and it's quite
amazing. Everything creaks, and groans, and sounds different.
Pre-flighting is an exercise in endurance, and your eyes water so badly you
can't see a danged thing.

Once everything is warmed up, however, the performance is spectacular!

The heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F.

Mike, I'd check to make sure the passenger compartment is relatively
airtight. When we flew our Warrior at that temperature (I've not had the
opportunity with the Pathfinder, yet), we were toasty warm in just a few
minutes. That Cherokee heater kicks out a lot of BTUs, and should do the
job, even when it's that cold -- unless the heat is being sucked out through
a bad door seal. (Or under the back seat. Or due to leaky air vents.)

I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.

Ours, too. We've taken to driving to the airport immediately after a
snowstorm, just so we can clear the area in front of the hangar door. (Our
first year here we didn't know to do that, and there were days when we
literally had to use a hammer and chisel to chip away the ice, just so we
could open the door. It was frozen to the ground!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

" Ours, too. We've taken to driving to the airport immediately after a
snowstorm, just so we can clear the area in front of the hangar door.
(Our
first year here we didn't know to do that, and there were days when we
literally had to use a hammer and chisel to chip away the ice, just so we
could open the door. It was frozen to the ground!)

Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout exercise, the
body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.

After two such experiences I started to change into a dry T-shirt and
sweater before entering the airplane. No more problems with ice on the
windows.

One final admonition regarding cold weather flying. The weather can change
pretty fast from sunny to low clouds with risk of icing. Be vigilant. I've
twice run into sleet or freezing rain before even clearing the pattern, when
the weather still looked OK on the apron.
But as I said, on a clear day winter flying is a great experience.

Nils
Helsinki, Finland

"Nils Rostedt" writes:

Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout
exercise, the body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.

Try leaving the storm window open at first, until the defroster is
pumping out enough heat. That trick works to keep a car from frosting
or fogging up as well (just open the windows a bit).


All the best,


David

"David Megginson" wrote ..
"Nils Rostedt" writes:

Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout
exercise, the body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.

Try leaving the storm window open at first, until the defroster is
pumping out enough heat. That trick works to keep a car from frosting
or fogging up as well (just open the windows a bit).

Right, that's standard practice here in winter. The problem is, that the
defroster has very poor effect during the warm-up and slow taxi phase.
Sufficient warm air only starts to flow during the take-off run when full
power is applied.

At least this is the case in the two-seaters I've flown. Maybe the bigger
tin cans do better. Anyway I've found it's much more comfortable (and safe)
to go inside, or to my car, and quickly switch into a dry shirt before
boarding the cold airplane. Less frost on the canopy, and a much warmer
feeling until the plane's heater finally kicks in. Hey, every bushpilot has
a spare shirt anyway ;-)

/ Nils
Helsinki, Finland

In article GFThb.738459$uu5.125046@sccrnsc04, Jay Honeck wrote:
Mike, I'd check to make sure the passenger compartment is relatively
airtight. When we flew our Warrior at that temperature (I've not had the

Apparently the opposite can cause a problem as well. Somebody on
the Short-Wing Piper list recently was complaining about having sealed
up everything, and now it's cold in the winter. Apparently, if you
seal too much, once the cabin gets 'pressurized', the heater isn't moving
warm air into the cabin anymore.

But that's just what I hear. Alternately, you could move to Houston,
and then you'd never need your airplane heater again.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

Apparently the opposite can cause a problem as well. Somebody on
the Short-Wing Piper list recently was complaining about having sealed
up everything, and now it's cold in the winter. Apparently, if you
seal too much, once the cabin gets 'pressurized', the heater isn't moving
warm air into the cabin anymore.

Well, I sealed up every air leak I could find in my old Warrior, and only
made it warmer -- but I suppose you could reach a point of being TOO sealed.

All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
sieves.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
sieves.

Hey let's not go giving sieves bad names. At least they stop *something*. :-)

Russell Kent

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:qgijb.777606$YN5.761167@sccrnsc01...
All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
sieves.

Mine doesn't help much by having a 1.5" gap between the back
of the canopy and the fuselage. :-) The heater's quite good though,
at least for temperatures I've flown in.

Paul

Thanks Mike. From your experience and other comments on this thread it
seems; this is a common problem that doesn't get worse, does not create
irreparable damage and it can be fixed. At least it can be fixed so that the
engine doesn't stumble start in mid-summer. The previous owner was convinced
the solution was a geared starter, and he was probably right. Now, I'm
starting to get the impression the problem could also be fixed with an
overhaul of my existing starter.

As I mentioned on a previous post I'll research and post.

Cheers!

Jose Vivanco
C-GPYH


"Mike Spera" wrote in message
...
My 140 has required the initial "bump" you describe for the last ten
years I owned it. Our positive braided battery strap has always been in
marginal shape. I will probably replace it this fall. It is split at the
battery post and does not offer the best connection.

What is that hardened putty-like stuff that insulates it from the
battery box? That looks like a really crude solution. Do they make some
sort of (legal) rubber isolator as a replacement, or do I have to
replace it with the same goop?

By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes. The
heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F. Here in
Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a tiedown.
Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very often.

I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.

Mike

Jose Vivanco wrote:
I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140
owner.
My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine
heater
but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below
(-10C/-23 F)
it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
to
plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.

Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?

I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one
blade
goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank
again
and it fires up immediately.

My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH.








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I have an E3D also. I noticed another fellow suggested field wiring open
circuits that cause this problem. Well, the problem has persisted
through 2 different starters (the second one a fresh overhaul when we
swapped out the engine). So, I tend to rule out the starter being the
problem.

Check your cable connections at the battery. They may be starting to
deteriorate.

Good Luck,
Mike
Jose Vivanco wrote:
Thanks Mike. From your experience and other comments on this thread it
seems; this is a common problem that doesn't get worse, does not create
irreparable damage and it can be fixed. At least it can be fixed so that the
engine doesn't stumble start in mid-summer. The previous owner was convinced
the solution was a geared starter, and he was probably right. Now, I'm
starting to get the impression the problem could also be fixed with an
overhaul of my existing starter.

As I mentioned on a previous post I'll research and post.

Cheers!

Jose Vivanco
C-GPYH


"Mike Spera" wrote in message
...

My 140 has required the initial "bump" you describe for the last ten
years I owned it. Our positive braided battery strap has always been in
marginal shape. I will probably replace it this fall. It is split at the
battery post and does not offer the best connection.

What is that hardened putty-like stuff that insulates it from the
battery box? That looks like a really crude solution. Do they make some
sort of (legal) rubber isolator as a replacement, or do I have to
replace it with the same goop?

By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes. The
heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F. Here in
Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a tiedown.
Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very often.

I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.

Mike

Jose Vivanco wrote:

I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140

owner.

My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine

heater

but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below

(-10C/-23 F)

it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition

to

plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.

Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?

I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one

blade

goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank

again

and it fires up immediately.

My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH.








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___

Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 -

http://www.uncensored-news.com

The Worlds Uncensored News Source







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