Cold Weather Flying

Mike Spera writes:

By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the
aging cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my
tastes. The heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below
0F. Here in Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a
tiedown. Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very
often.

It might be worth checking the heater box -- they can corrode pretty
badly when not used, and the valve might not be moving all the way
Mine has jammed up twice in the year I've owned the plane, but my AME
cleaned out the corrosion at the annual, and at his recommendation I
now slide the heater and defroster all the way open and closed again
on every preflight (use it or lose it).

When my heater valve is working, my plane can get too hot even with an
OAT of -30 degC and I have to reduce heat (that's with thermal
underwear but no coat). I also don't use the oil cooler plate because
the one that comes with my plane does not seem to fit -- the oil temps
stay low, but still within the zone.


All the best,


David

"Jose Vivanco" wrote:

I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)

-10C is actually +14F. The conversion formula is:

F = 9/5 C + 32

or

C = 5/9(F - 32)

It's helpful to remember a few points along the scale to get a quick
reference rather than having to do math in your head:

-40C = -40F
-18C = 0F
0C = 32F
10C = 50F
20C = 68F
30C = 86F

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q

Another quick estimation is to double the Celsius number and add 30.
Gets you close with very little brainpower.
Mike



jim rosinski wrote:
"Jose Vivanco" wrote:


I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)


-10C is actually +14F. The conversion formula is:

F = 9/5 C + 32

or

C = 5/9(F - 32)

It's helpful to remember a few points along the scale to get a quick
reference rather than having to do math in your head:

-40C = -40F
-18C = 0F
0C = 32F
10C = 50F
20C = 68F
30C = 86F

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q


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You need a battery heater in additon to your engine heater.. See:

http://www.tanair.com/index.html

You should probably buy/make an engine blanket too.


Mike
MU-2



"Jose Vivanco" wrote in message
...

I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23
F)
it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
to
plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.

Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?

I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
and it fires up immediately.

My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH.

"Jose Vivanco" writes:

I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years
old. Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead,
i.e. one blade goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to
off, then crank again and it fires up immediately.

At -10 degC, my PA-28-161 will usually turn over and fire just fine
without preheat (also copper cables), and I'm not sure how old the
battery is. At first I had the heater plugged in for any subzero
temperatures, but now I just do it when it's significantly cold out.

From my relatively inexperienced point of view, I'd suggest having
everything checked -- battery, wiring, starter, primer lines, mags,
etc. -- given that we have similar planes and your summer start is
already suboptimal. It won't be any fun being stuck at a little
country airport in the winter with a plane that won't start.

By the way, my AME showed me a great trick for starting in general,
but one that's especially useful in the winter. Instead of opening
the throttle to get the engine to catch, keep the throttle almost
closed and pump the primer while cranking -- it seems to work much
better, and you don't end up surging the engine at 1200-1500 RPM (or
worse) when everything's still cold.


All the best,


David

C-FBJO at CYOW

"David Megginson" wrote in message
...

At -10 degC, my PA-28-161 will usually turn over and fire just fine
without preheat (also copper cables), and I'm not sure how old the
battery is. At first I had the heater plugged in for any subzero
temperatures, but now I just do it when it's significantly cold out.

During my renter days in Montreal the flight school was adamant about
plugging in the aircraft below 0 degC. Their take was, warm oil spreads
itself around faster than colder oil and this would minimize start-up wear
and tear.

From my relatively inexperienced point of view, I'd suggest having
everything checked -- battery, wiring, starter, primer lines, mags,
etc. -- given that we have similar planes and your summer start is
already suboptimal. It won't be any fun being stuck at a little
country airport in the winter with a plane that won't start.

I will be talking to the mechanic sometime this week and ask him to work his
way forward from the battery to the starter. Hopefully it will be an
el-cheapo fix, like cleaning contact surfaces. I'll post the results.

By the way, my AME showed me a great trick for starting in general,
but one that's especially useful in the winter. Instead of opening
the throttle to get the engine to catch, keep the throttle almost
closed and pump the primer while cranking -- it seems to work much
better, and you don't end up surging the engine at 1200-1500 RPM (or
worse) when everything's still cold.

My instructor in Montreal used to do this, I just need to remember to do it
nex time.

Cheers!

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH @ CYRO

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:28:09 -0400, "Jose Vivanco"
wrote:

During my renter days in Montreal the flight school was adamant about
plugging in the aircraft below 0 degC. Their take was, warm oil spreads
itself around faster than colder oil and this would minimize start-up wear
and tear.

That also reduces the size difference between the various engine parts.

Although Lycoming recommends preheat for temps below 20°F (-7°C), I find
that my Lycoming IO360A1A starts much more briskly and easily if I preheat
below about 35°F.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)