Another ownership question

Long-term (over the past 50 years or so), airplanes have generally
appreciated at the overall inflation rate. So they aren't great investments
per se, but they don't dramatically lose value like cars, motorcycles,
boats, etc. like most depreciating assets. This assumes you put some money
back into the airplane for capital improvements (paint, avionics,
upholstery, etc.). Include this and it doesn't look so good. They're about
halfway between a car and a house.

As with all things, you have to ride out the downs to get to the ups. My
aircraft increased in value about 65% between purchase in 1991 and 2001
(about a 5% annual appreciation rate), but has lost $20K in the last two
years. So overall, it has averaged 3%/year. I consider this a little high
since the runup in the late-90's was unprecedented. So 2-2.5% is probably a
good long-term average to expect. And that's about the inflation rate over
the period.

- Mark

You've all given me some good informationa and confirmed what I already
suspected; thanks loads! I bought Iowa University Press' "Buying And Owning
Your Own Airplane" today; I'll get back to you on any questions that
publication may raise. I'm still at the "what kind of airplane do I want?"
stage, with the C-172 being the most practical and a 150hp Citabria being
the most interesting (and fun) airplanes in my price and range. The vast
majority of my flying will be by myself, so the power limitations of these
two airplanes aren't really a factor, and they'll both suit me well for
weekend jaunts as well as XC flying. The Citabria will require a hangar,
and that may be an issue as they are not the easiest things to find here (I
want to base the plane at KCXO). Then there's tailwheel insurance... Ok, I
am getting an idea of what this involves, and I realize I am just dealing
with the tip of the iceberg!

Wendy

On 18-Nov-2003, "Wendy" wrote:

I'm still at the "what kind of airplane do I want?" stage, with the C-172
being the most practical and a 150hp Citabria being the most interesting
(and fun) airplanes in my price and range. The vast majority of my flying
will be by myself, so the power limitations of these two airplanes aren't
really a factor, and they'll both suit me well for weekend jaunts as well
as XC flying.



As a compromise between these two you might consider a Grumman Cheetah. Or,
since you will be alone most of the time, a Cherokee 140 will provide
similar performance to a C-172 at a significantly lower purchase price.
Another advantage of the Cherokee is its much larger fuel tanks, which give
it very good range when the cabin load is light.

--
-Elliott Drucker

Get the Citabria. More utility. You can turn it upside down :-0. Tailwheel
insurance is not a big deal if you find the right company. AUA is good.

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

"Wendy" wrote in message
...

You've all given me some good informationa and confirmed what I already
suspected; thanks loads! I bought Iowa University Press' "Buying And
Owning
Your Own Airplane" today; I'll get back to you on any questions that
publication may raise. I'm still at the "what kind of airplane do I
want?"
stage, with the C-172 being the most practical and a 150hp Citabria being
the most interesting (and fun) airplanes in my price and range. The vast
majority of my flying will be by myself, so the power limitations of these
two airplanes aren't really a factor, and they'll both suit me well for
weekend jaunts as well as XC flying. The Citabria will require a hangar,
and that may be an issue as they are not the easiest things to find here
(I
want to base the plane at KCXO). Then there's tailwheel insurance... Ok,
I
am getting an idea of what this involves, and I realize I am just dealing
with the tip of the iceberg!

Wendy

"Henry and Debbie McFarland" wrote in message
ink.net...
Get the Citabria. More utility. You can turn it upside down :-0. Tailwheel
insurance is not a big deal if you find the right company. AUA is good.

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

I'm leaning towards the Citabria. I learned to fly one at Harvey & Rihn
Aviation, and picked up a few hours in their Super Decathlon along the way;
I love spins and rolls! Cub Crafters has a nice one for sale, although it
is the 115hp ECA (which is what my tailwheel training was done in):
http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/airpla...&PartID=998 8
It's had the metal spar AD completed, and it looks pretty good. I've not
done enough research to know if the price is too high or not.

Wendy

Wendy,
I bought a 1968 ECA about two months ago. The insurance is about $1000/year
with AIG. I previously had about twenty hours in tail draggers and an
instrument rating. I don't know about the price on the plane you mentioned
but it does seem high. Then again, it looks like new.
Check out yahoo groups for citabriapilots. They really helped me when I
bought mine.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CitabriaPilots/

Dave


"Wendy" wrote in message
...

"Henry and Debbie McFarland" wrote in message
ink.net...
Get the Citabria. More utility. You can turn it upside down :-0.
Tailwheel
insurance is not a big deal if you find the right company. AUA is good.

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

I'm leaning towards the Citabria. I learned to fly one at Harvey & Rihn
Aviation, and picked up a few hours in their Super Decathlon along the
way;
I love spins and rolls! Cub Crafters has a nice one for sale, although it
is the 115hp ECA (which is what my tailwheel training was done in):

http://www.cubcrafters.com/cc/airpla...&PartID=998 8
It's had the metal spar AD completed, and it looks pretty good. I've not
done enough research to know if the price is too high or not.

Wendy

"dave" davesjunkmail@comcast wrote in message
...
Wendy,
I bought a 1968 ECA about two months ago. The insurance is about
$1000/year
with AIG. I previously had about twenty hours in tail draggers and an
instrument rating. I don't know about the price on the plane you
mentioned
but it does seem high. Then again, it looks like new.
Check out yahoo groups for citabriapilots. They really helped me when I
bought mine.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CitabriaPilots/

Dave

I can live with $1000/yr, but if it is outrageously high I'd forgo hull
insurance until I had more time in the plane (anything I buy will be a cash
deal involving no financing, but I know I'd be insane to not carry
liability). I am not instrument rated, although I am slowly working on it
in a 172. I'll have maybe 20 hrs TW when I buy, and somewhere in the
neighborhood of 150 hrs total. Insurance peoples might gag at that The
airplanes are just loads of fun to fly (as you know!); the feeling of flight
is very immediate in a Citabria and I find that quite attractive. Not to
mention they make you pay attention on the ground... I really don't know
when I'll buy- maybe in the fall of next year, which gives me a lot of time
to research the aircraft, the process, and my own myriad compulsions
Thanks for the link to the group- I'll jump in there straightaway.

Wendy

"Wendy" wrote in message
...

You've all given me some good informationa and confirmed what I already
suspected; thanks loads! I bought Iowa University Press' "Buying And
Owning
Your Own Airplane" today; I'll get back to you on any questions that
publication may raise. I'm still at the "what kind of airplane do I
want?"
stage, with the C-172 being the most practical and a 150hp Citabria being
the most interesting (and fun) airplanes in my price and range. The vast
majority of my flying will be by myself, so the power limitations of these
two airplanes aren't really a factor, and they'll both suit me well for
weekend jaunts as well as XC flying. The Citabria will require a hangar,
and that may be an issue as they are not the easiest things to find here
(I
want to base the plane at KCXO). Then there's tailwheel insurance... Ok,
I
am getting an idea of what this involves, and I realize I am just dealing
with the tip of the iceberg!

Wendy


Absolutely no doubt go with the Citabria. Insurance will not be a problem.
Make sure the wing spar AD is complied with if it has a wood spar.

After renting, flying, etc in Cherokees and Cessnas, I bought a Grumman
Cheetah.

Well, the RV people http://www.vansaircraft.com/ talk about the "RV grin".

The Grumman is no RV (close in some respects), but there is such a thing as
the "Grumman grin" http://www.aya.org/

Have fun!
++++++++++++++
Duane MacInnis PE
Flight Instructor
Cell (604) 454-7415
www.macinnisaviation.com

Grumman Cheetah C-GVJF


"Wendy" wrote in message
...

You've all given me some good informationa and confirmed what I already
suspected; thanks loads! I bought Iowa University Press' "Buying And
Owning
Your Own Airplane" today; I'll get back to you on any questions that
publication may raise. I'm still at the "what kind of airplane do I
want?"
stage, with the C-172 being the most practical and a 150hp Citabria being
the most interesting (and fun) airplanes in my price and range. The vast
majority of my flying will be by myself, so the power limitations of these
two airplanes aren't really a factor, and they'll both suit me well for
weekend jaunts as well as XC flying. The Citabria will require a hangar,
and that may be an issue as they are not the easiest things to find here
(I
want to base the plane at KCXO). Then there's tailwheel insurance... Ok,
I
am getting an idea of what this involves, and I realize I am just dealing
with the tip of the iceberg!

Wendy