Private Pilot in 10 days

Slav Inger wrote:

And that's just to attain the bare minimums required by the FARs. Not
many of us walk away with the ticket after just 40 hours.

It is important to recall that the FARs (and the PTSs) set minimums. I hope
that we all aim far higher than this.

The IR PTS requires demonstration of three different types of approaches.
Should we learn only three?

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

It is important to recall that the FARs (and the PTSs) set minimums. I hope
that we all aim far higher than this.

The IR PTS requires demonstration of three different types of approaches.
Should we learn only three?


That's exactly my point. Quickest doesn't always mean the best.

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP

"Gilan" wrote in message ...

I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10 days. I
plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how long the average
person takes to complete their PPL?

The other posters who mentioned mental fatigue (you know, what made
all them DH Comets crash in the '60s) and the value of down-time have
excellent points. I'm learning the slow way, and I believe the days
(sometimes weeks in our capricious NE weather) between each lesson are
vital, both for preparing for the next flight and allowing the brain
to focsu on other tasks.

It seems that a lot of 'learning' is done when you're not actively
concentrating on picking up a new skill; think of how easy it is to
remember the name of a song when you stop trying, or how effective
'sleeping on it' is when dealing with a problem. The brain does its
good work when you don't think it's doing anything.

I learned to drive with a week's intensive course. Idea was 9am Monday
was the first time you got behind the wheel and on 3pm Friday you'd
take your test. This is in the UK, I imagine the standards for a
driving test in the US are simliar. I ate, drank and slept driving for
5 days and passed. I'd spent the week learning at a frenetic pace but
the lessons of judgement never sank in until I'd discovered them all
over again on my own. Looking back it was only a couple of weeks later
that I was even remotely safe (or confident) behind the wheel.

You can't rush the accumulation of experience. 40 hours over 10 days
is not the same as 40 hours over a year. With an 'intensive' school
you don't give yourself enough time to analyse your mistakes before
moving on to making the next one. If I come close to busting airspace
now, or extend my crosswind so far I end up flying over the
incinerator smoke stacks and nearly flipping the plane, then I have a
week to let that sink in and I won't make that mistake again. If I was
up again the same afternoon I do not think the impact of my bad
decisions would have had a chance to sink in.

I think this really applies to primary training though. For additional
ratings where you're augmenting your skills, not learning an entirely
new skill (and flying is unlike anything we encounter in daily life),
then the intensive method may be more effective.

Jim's school sounds excellent. Immersion isn't the same as Intensive.

If you do go for it you should probably budget for followup lessons
with a CFI while you build confidence.

$0.02

Best & good luck,

Tim K.

Gilan wrote:

I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10
days. I plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how
long the average person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html

For me, that doesn't sound good. I'm quite sure 10 days might be long enough
to show someone how to manage a some-kind-of level flight and maybe some
kind of landings, but I'm quite sure it in no way will be enough time to get
a somewhat useable pilot, especially when beginning from zero...

I was looking for a compressed PPL training for myself, and next week I will
begin my training which certainly will take around 7 intensive weeks. But
then, my instructor doesn't have from the beginning since I already have
flying experience and knowledge. I'm aware that even with my experience this
probably would be some hard weeks, and I really can't imagine that such a
10-day-pilot will be really be able to fly solo in a somewhat safe manner...

Benjamin

Two years ago I went to Lake Elmo, MN, USA.
I took flying lesson during 1 month, and then the examn. It's possible,
I am sure. But if my dad would fly himself I weren't able to do that. I
flew with my dad many many times, and I knew a lot about flying before
get started at Lake Elmo. But you have always to know:
If you have your license you are allowed to fly, you aren't yet a good
pilot. The skills are coming with the time! And you can't get this
skills in 10 days. That needs a whole life. Even my dad after 20 years
of flying, isn't yet at the end of perfection. You learn after each
flight. Never forget to make a debrifing for your own.

Roger



Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Gilan wrote:


I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10
days. I plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how
long the average person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html


For me, that doesn't sound good. I'm quite sure 10 days might be long enough
to show someone how to manage a some-kind-of level flight and maybe some
kind of landings, but I'm quite sure it in no way will be enough time to get
a somewhat useable pilot, especially when beginning from zero...

I was looking for a compressed PPL training for myself, and next week I will
begin my training which certainly will take around 7 intensive weeks. But
then, my instructor doesn't have from the beginning since I already have
flying experience and knowledge. I'm aware that even with my experience this
probably would be some hard weeks, and I really can't imagine that such a
10-day-pilot will be really be able to fly solo in a somewhat safe manner...

Benjamin

Accelerated training is far superior to long drawn out scheduling. I will
attempt to tell you why it is and why it works.

Long term memory is stored in various ways. There is implicit memory and
explicit memory.

Explicit memorys are memories that we can consciously remember. Most of what
we commonly consider "memory" is explicit memory. Answers we give on exams
are a product of explicit memory. Everything you know and remember is
explicit memory. These memories are recalled from cues and links to other
memories. Declarative memories are general factual information and Episodic
memories are personal experiances or based on an episode. The amount of
emotion involved has a great deal to do with its long term retention. You
can't remember what you ate last month, but you can (if you are old enough)
remember what you were doing when Kennedy was shot 40 years ago! or when the
Shuttle blew up on take off some 20 years ago. Also pleasureable moments are
stored better,Can you remember when ... you get the point. Things learned in
a pleasureable atmosphere are retained much longer. In an accelerated
learning atmosphere, you are concentrating on one thing, learning. All other
family stress, job stress, telephones, that normally cause interference to
learning are not present. Think about the once a week student that had a bad
week at the office and came in for a lesson and was thinking about all the
weeks worth of crap that just happened to him, he is trying to learn what
the instructor is saying but doesn't really learn anything. Accelerated
training just doesn't involve anything but a positive learning environment.
The student is learning rapidly and having an enjoyable experiance, which
reinforces the long term retention of the information. The plateau that all
students have when trying to land goes by so fast they don't get discouraged
and quit. The onece a week student gets discouraged when after three or four
or eight weeks go by and they still can't land the plane. They say I just
can't do this and quit. My students are usually soloing on the 3rd or 4th
day, and landing better than most of the commercial students from the big
141 schools that come into our little airport. This might be hard to believe
but it's true.

Implicit memories are memories that we do not consciously remember, which
influence our behavior, These are the memories that we instill by proper
conditioning. These are also the memories that come into play during an
emergency. Primal thought patterns that were injected correctly in the
beginning will come back with no thought at all. The conditioning takes
repetition for laong term storage. The decay rate of long term memory is
something also to consider. The average person will retain about 95 % of the
information presented by the next day. By the 7th day this is down to %80
and by day 10 it is %70. The positive reinforcement on the next day is far
superior to the once a week student. The average person can learn about 7
concepts per day, I generally only introduce about 5, then reinforce them
the next day and introduce 5 more. The understanding is important to the
long term memory retention so I discuss each concept to a depth that they
can apply, such as airspace rules. Don't just recite them to me , what does
that mean to you as a VFR pilot, how do you apply that information.

The other key ingredient is the instructor. He must be so passionate
about"TEACHING" not just a passenger building time. All instructors could
not teach this method, in fact i would say that most could not, from what I
have seen out there! Also all students cannot learn by this method, or any
method for that matter. Each individual has hei/her own needs and the
instruction needs to be taylored to that person. That is why I don't like
the 141 approach to cutting cookies. I do however use the course sylibus and
checklists from a 141 program to record the progress and be sure all
material has been covered.

I have taught many students to fly in 10 days, never had an accident or
insurance claim of any kind on any of my aircraft, and have produced very
competent pilots!
I hope I can get some of them to take a little time to come on line to tell
you of their experiance!

Cliff Manley
Perfect Planes, Inc.
www.perfectplanes.com

Oh, and for those of you that think I'm in this for the money, aren' in the
business. There simply is no money in this business, If you don't love it
you better find something else to do with your time! Also financially it
would be better for me to have 5 to 8 students a day, each running out 80
hours. 80 hours is more income than 40! But I don't because it's not better!
It's better to know one student at a time and know what they need and what
you are going to each minute. How many times with the once a week student
does the instructor look in their logbook just to try and remember what they
did last time? Think about it and you will see my point. And if you don't I
don't care anyway! The students are trained well at a low cost, and have fun
doing it!

I love it!
Cliff

hello there

it took me close to 18 months. not to say that it is not safe to do it quicker,
but view is anything less than three months is too quick. there are still areas
that i need to practice to be a safe pilot (ie: unusual attitudes and spins ).
i think 10 days is pure folly .

rgds
dean licheri (tyro ppl)


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Gilan wrote:
I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10 days. I
plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how long the average
person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html

--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
http://pub27.bravenet.com/sitering/a...num=2286862090

well I've been at it off and on for many years and now I decided to finish
it. Over the years I would just get an hour or so here and there but this
time I'm going until I finish. I think a person can get their license in 10
days with an instructor like I have. If you have the time to put everything
else on hold and concentrate on nothing else for the 10 days I think it can
be done. I'm hoping I can get 3 to 4 hours a week in so I should be done in
short time.

--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
http://pub27.bravenet.com/sitering/a...num=2286862090

"diabolik" wrote ...
hello there

it took me close to 18 months. not to say that it is not safe to do it
quicker,
but view is anything less than three months is too quick. there are still
areas
that i need to practice to be a safe pilot (ie: unusual attitudes and
spins ).
i think 10 days is pure folly .

rgds
dean licheri (tyro ppl)


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Gilan wrote:
I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10 days. I
plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how long the
average
person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html