Rogue IFR

C'mon - if it's solid deck from 300' up to 5000' and he's at 1200', it is
pretty obvious. Maybe not legally enforcable, but obvious.

MIchael

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Roger Long" om wrote
in
message ...

Some days in this part of the world, it's pretty obvious.


That doesn't answer the question. How would it be obvious?

"Michael 182" wrote in message
news:U6Ylb.5040$ao4.10373@attbi_s51...

C'mon - if it's solid deck from 300' up to 5000' and he's at 1200', it is
pretty obvious. Maybe not legally enforcable, but obvious.


Yeah, that's obvious, but how can you tell it's solid deck from 300' to
5000' by looking at a radar scope?

In article ,
"Roger Long" om
wrote:


It occurs to me that this guy would never have been doing this if the GPS
hadn't been invented. He just watches the gauges and follows the little
pointer until he see the airport.

While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.


But now they live long enough to amaze the rest of us

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

--
Roger Long

"Roger Long"
While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.

But now they live long enough to amaze the rest of us

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

Yeah, but GPS direct flight also takes advantage of the wide open sky and
hopefully keeps all of us off the same airway.

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

I'm sure you are correct -- especially for pilots with some IFR training.

Myself, for example. I don't have the IR, due to a myriad of time
constraints -- yet I've got all the flying requirements under my belt. I'm
sure I can keep my wings level in the soup as well as any newly minted
instrument pilot.

That said, could I fly an unauthorized instrument approach into Iowa City
using my giant color AvMap? Sure! In fact, I'd wager that I could fly a
BETTER instrument approach using just the AvMap, as opposed to (for example)
flying the full VOR 36 approach into Iowa City.

Would it be legal? Nope. Would it be safe? Except for the
not-talking-to-ATC part, yup. Would I do it? Nope. My ticket -- and my
family's lives -- are too valuable to me to risk on something so stupid.

But I'm sure there are those who would...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article ,
Roger Long om wrote:
While the GPS may give them more accuracy, this was being done long
before the GPS became available.

But now they live long enough to amaze the rest of us

Seriously though, I'm sure the accuracy of the GPS and the cute little
moving map makes this much more tempting, and thus, common.

Yep, not like the old days when people knew better right The real
problem is maps of any kind, and autopilots...

In article , Roger Long wrote:

It occurs to me that this guy would never have been doing this if the GPS
hadn't been invented. He just watches the gauges and follows the little
pointer until he see the airport.

This has been going on long before GPS. Check out this sad story:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...14X43777&key=1

And that's just one example.

Roger Long wrote:

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they know
is solid IMC?

How would they know, really? I think it's the other way around. I think
ATC sees a 1200 target, and they go, "look, VMC over there."

What's scarier than solid IMC is the case where visibility is perhaps around
two miles, and the IFR pilot is head down flying gauges like a good IFR
pilot, and the VFR pilot is tooling around optimistically claiming that he
can see three miles and change.

Of course most midairs happen in fine VFR weather...

"Craig Prouse" wrote in message
...
Roger Long wrote:

What does ATC do when they see a 1200 target boring through what they
know
is solid IMC?

How would they know, really? I think it's the other way around. I think
ATC sees a 1200 target, and they go, "look, VMC over there."

ATC doesn't really care. Their concern is to separate the IFRs and call
traffic to IFRs if there's time. It's the pilot's job to comply with
visibility and cloud separation rqmts-not ATC's job to police it.

Only time ATC cares what the pilot sees outside the window is when ATC has
to decide if it's legal to approve a request, or issue a clearance requiring
VMC. In those cases, ATC will ask "say flight conditions".

Cloud layers are another possibility that could make the VFR target entirely
legal. Just the fact that there's a ceiling out there doesn't rule out
legal, and in some situations, sensible, VFR flight above the layer, or
between them. Way too many variables for ATC to spend time worrying about
the VFR target.