A question for the future

rom: "Brien K. Meehan"
Date: 9/16/2004 12:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id:

Morgans wrote:
Troll.

You need to stick around for a bit longer, before you jump with a
post like
this. I can assure you that the poster has been around for years,
and is
not a troll.

The post is a troll.

The GPS vs. pilotage "debate" is the most classic aviation newsgroup
troll material.

Every experienced CFI knows the value of weather and pilotage skills.
No experienced CFI would seriously wonder when it's going away. The
guy is either not an experienced CFI, or he's trolling.
Are you a troll?

Only in appearance.

Mr Meehan

The origional question was asked as a point of discussion. It was meant to be
answered by people that have some sense of civility and experience in aviation
when it comes to the training of pilots.

In the past 4 months I have taught 2 ground schools to over 50 students. Not so
much as a final end to passing the private written but to introduce people from
age 13 to one person in there 80s.to the basics of flight and navigation. I
have done this pro-bono, free, for nothing, not a damn dime, and in the case of
one class at the Sun N Fun camp in Lakeland contibuted some of the material.

Now as to why you want to mouth off and call me a troll is strictly up to you.
But let me assure you the question was meant to be answered by people that have
some sense as to what is going on in aviation when it comes to training
students to get from point A to B. The question by the students daughter made
for a point of discussion and there for I posted it to get some opinions and
not smart a** remarks. I appreciate the comments that have been made, except
yours, and found that most agree that a GPS might fail and pilotage might just
save someone's butt some day..

As for the question of IF it would ever be removed from the written or the PTS
it was only that.....a question.

As for you remarks about my experience as a CFI. Been one since 1965 and have
instructed in J3s to transports and have held 11 FAA issued Check Airman
letters.

No I dont advertise as a "World Famous Flight Instructor" but just try and
teach students the basics and impart some knowledge learned from 42 years of
aviating.I am not going to list my hours and ratings because there are people
on here that have more. I am not going to try and impress anyone on this group.


Just try and be a little civil when someone asks a question and dont let your
smart mouth prove that you might be the troll.

Walt CFI 1602574

B25flyer wrote:

The origional question was asked as a point of discussion. It was
meant to be
answered by people that have some sense of civility and experience in
aviation
when it comes to the training of pilots.

You don't get to pick who participates in a Usenet discussion.

I
have done this pro-bono, free, for nothing, not a damn dime, and in
the case of
one class at the Sun N Fun camp in Lakeland contibuted some of the
material.

It's funny how often someone tries to use "free" as a preemption for
all criticism. That happens to be a peeve of mine, but that's aside.

Now as to why you want to mouth off and call me a troll is strictly
up to you.

I called your post, not you, a troll, but yes, it is strictly up to me.

But let me assure you the question was meant to be answered by people
that have
some sense as to what is going on in aviation when it comes to
training
students to get from point A to B.

Qualified people are already tired of this topic.

The question by the students daughter made
for a point of discussion and there for I posted it to get some
opinions and
not smart a** remarks.

You don't get to pick what remarks are made in a Usenet discussion.

I appreciate the comments that have been made, except
yours, and found that most agree that a GPS might fail and pilotage
might just
save someone's butt some day..

That's because it's obvious, and has already been beat to death.

As for the question of IF it would ever be removed from the written
or the PTS
it was only that.....a question.

All trolls are just questions.

As for you remarks about my experience as a CFI. Been one since 1965
and have
instructed in J3s to transports and have held 11 FAA issued Check
Airman
letters.

I speculated that you're either not a CFI or this is a troll. If you
are a CFI, I'll stick with the latter.

No I dont advertise as a "World Famous Flight Instructor" but just
try and
teach students the basics and impart some knowledge learned from 42
years of
aviating.I am not going to list my hours and ratings because there
are people
on here that have more. I am not going to try and impress anyone on
this group.

Your credentials are actually very impressive.

Just try and be a little civil when someone asks a question and dont
let your
smart mouth prove that you might be the troll.

Try to grow a thicker skin, or at least a sense of humor, if you're
going to post trolls on Usenet. All I said was "Troll" and "Yeah,
right." There are certainly not offensive statements. It's not
"mouthing off." If anyone finds them uncivil, he's taking himself way
too seriously. If they're not applicable to the discussion, just skip
them.

"B25flyer" wrote in message
...

Over a period of time aviation seems to make changes due to technical
advances.
As such in the past certain "basics" of aviation that were once written in
stone have gone by the wayside.

So here is one for ya. Last week I started a student on the ground school
basics of cross country planing. Draw the line on the sectional from
airport to
airport. Discuss all the wind, magnetic and other variables etc. After
about 20
minutes into the discussion the students 13 year old daughter who was
intently
watching asked the question. "Why do all that when I can do the same thing
in
30 seconds on the handheld GPS and enroute it will take care of the wind
correction"

Got me to thinking. So question is, what is the opinion of the troops as
to
when the system will change and as part of the written/PTS for any rating
there
will no longer be the requirment to draw the line and figure out all the
other
stuff for the X-C portion of the test. Just put in airports/waypoints and
go
for it.

Five years? Ten years? Or will it stick around forever?

Walt
Forty+ years as a CFI and still drawing lines on sectionals.

Interesting question...
I'm a pretty new PP-ASEL, and somewhat of a technology junkie.
I'm in the process of purchasing my 1st airplane.
I pick it up in about 2 weeks.
It's in TX, and I'm in NV...about 1200nm.
The plane comes with a GPS, so I'll use it.
I've also planned the trip to intersect every VOR (or a radial) along the
way.
I've also drawn the line across four different sectional charts.
My thinking is that if something goes wrong with the GPS, I can use the
VORs.
And I ALWAYS like to look outside and say, "Yup, there's that dry lake bed,
just like on the chart".
I actually drew the lines on the chart first, then got the waypoints to put
into the GPS...

Another poster mentioned that a GPS can go tango uniform, which is true...
If I was stuck in a plane without a chart, I'd want TWO completely redundant
GPS units...

Adam

"B25flyer" wrote in message Forty+ years as a CFI and still drawing lines
on sectionals.

Still drawing lines on sectionals?
I simply fold the chart along the courseline. That way, I don't have to buy
a new one for years.

D. (What's the kid going to do when the magic box craps out and she doesn't
know the basics?)

Still drawing lines on sectionals?

I simply fold the chart along the courseline.


Been flying since 1980 and I never thought of that!

To answer the underlying question (why not let the GPS do all your flight
planning) I'd ask back why not let the autopilot do all the flying, and take a
snooze in the back seat?

1) charts have few catastrophic failure modes
2) perusing the chart before a flight alerts me to special use airspace, high
towers, terrain, stuff like that (especially important when one flies low, as I
am wont to do)
3) it's part of the fun of flying - doing it yourself as opposed to
surrendering to something by Garmin
4) what you've planned yourself you'll recognize more easily than what's
handed to you on a screen.

Jose


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