Bush Wants To Cut FAA Budget

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote:
They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work
right
from the day they are opened, have leaky roofs, cracks in the walls
and
floors, substandard plumbing, inadequate parking, and poor security.
The
moldy LA facility that they are complaining about is moldy because of
managerial negligence, not age.

The FAA budget should not only be cut, but much of the management
should be
brought up on charges for criminal dereliction of duty.

You could substitute "U. S. Military" for "FAA" in those statements with
perfect accuracy. I have plenty of experience as a contractor for both
and have found the military as bad a steward of public funds as the
FAA - and they have a lot more to spend. My favorite example is a big
pallet-load of new-in-the-box dot matrix printers still gathering dust
in a mechanical room at an Army base: it has overnight shipping labels
on it.

In case you don't find that depressing enough, let me tell you that NASA
is worse than both of them.

It amazes me what the government spends to furnish a single office. Most
businesses make do with second hand furniture or sale items, or they get
discount furniture from the big box stores. Few businesses can afford to
furnish their offices as if they were sets for big budget Hollywood films
about high powered law firms. Yet the feds manage to spend far more than the
Hollywood standard on stuff that I wouldn't impose on my dog.

If they were private employers, they would have been sued out of business
years ago for the way they treat their employees. The only federal employees
I have ever met that seemed to be happy with their working conditions were,
oddly enough, from the IRS. But then, I haven't dealt with the IRS in
several years, so things may be different now.

"C J Campbell" wrote:
If they were private employers, they would have been sued out of business
years ago for the way they treat their employees.

My father was a career U. S. Post Office employee, from letter carrier to
management, and I believe the failure of his health was largely due to what
a horrible place the P. O. was to work. It was characterized by a
malignantly hateful relationship between management and labor that polluted
the entire organization. Judging by events since it became the
semi-autonomous "U. S. Postal Service," it's no better now.

The only federal employees
I have ever met that seemed to be happy with their working conditions
were,
oddly enough, from the IRS.

I've never been around any except air traffic controllers; the ones I've met
seem to love their jobs.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

"C J Campbell" wrote:
They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work right
from the day they are opened, have leaky roofs, cracks in the walls and
floors, substandard plumbing, inadequate parking, and poor security. The
moldy LA facility that they are complaining about is moldy because of
managerial negligence, not age.

The FAA budget should not only be cut, but much of the management should
be
brought up on charges for criminal dereliction of duty.

You could substitute "U. S. Military" for "FAA" in those statements with
perfect accuracy. I have plenty of experience as a contractor for both
and have found the military as bad a steward of public funds as the FAA -
and they have a lot more to spend. My favorite example is a big
pallet-load of new-in-the-box dot matrix printers still gathering dust in
a mechanical room at an Army base: it has overnight shipping labels on it.

In case you don't find that depressing enough, let me tell you that NASA
is worse than both of them.
--
They sell surplus parts at aution then buy them back as long as there in the
origanel packaging.
Dan
C172RG at BFM

C J Campbell wrote:



They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work right
from the day they are opened,

No ****. We are getting a new tower here in Billings, opening August
2006. Took a tour of the 75% complete building for the first time
yesterday. Helluva building. But the TRACON, holy crap Batman. We
only ever have one scope open at a time right now. We have two scopes
in the current TRACON in a room approx 15X15. Our new TRACON is about
100x100. There is talk about running the Bozeman radar from here when
they get it installed but the room is still 40 times bigger than it has
to be.

In article , Newps
wrote:

They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work
right
from the day they are opened,

No ****. We are getting a new tower here in Billings, opening August
2006. Took a tour of the 75% complete building for the first time
yesterday. Helluva building. But the TRACON, holy crap Batman. We
only ever have one scope open at a time right now. We have two scopes
in the current TRACON in a room approx 15X15. Our new TRACON is about
100x100. There is talk about running the Bozeman radar from here when
they get it installed but the room is still 40 times bigger than it has
to be.

having some involvement in cutover for 24/7 facilities, let me
just say that you cannot have too much space. About the dumbest
thing someone can do is to build new facilities without gobs of
room.

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.

The FAA wastes most of its budget. The Wall Street Journal makes a
favorite
target of air traffic control systems that cost ten times what off the
shelf
equipment could do better. The FAA spends decades and millions of dollars
developing new technologies and programs which were obsolete before they
even began studying them and then cancels them at the last minute.

They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work right
from the day they are opened, have leaky roofs, cracks in the walls and
floors, substandard plumbing, inadequate parking, and poor security. The
moldy LA facility that they are complaining about is moldy because of
managerial negligence, not age.

The FAA budget should not only be cut, but much of the management should
be
brought up on charges for criminal dereliction of duty.

I did my Master's Thesis on the first 10years of FAA after the 1981 PATCO
affair so I really don't want to get started on it again. But the above
statements are correct about the FAA studies for equipment and cancellations
and the comparison to COS (Commercial Off the Shelf) implementation costs.

Getting the ATC system up and running after 1981 took more than 10yrs and
more than 10 times the original estimated cost than originally promised to
President Regain in 1981.

Let's just go look at what happened last week to LAX ARTCC. A computer that
controls the communication switching has a built in self test (BIT) that
needs to be reset every 30days, a "reset" of the computer so the computer
knows it's still a computer. Some "maintenance" was not accomplished in time
so the 30day bit timer ran out and rather than flag a warning on day 29 the
system just shuts down at the end of day 30.

The poor computer maintainer will be fired.. not the FAA higher ups that
bought the POS and approved it in the beginning.

Think about this, manpower studies have told the FAA leadership that more
than 1000 new controllers need to be hired and trained every year to try and
make it through the future controller retirements. Right now they are
getting less than 1/2 that number.

Most of the current ATC manpower were hired after 1981 and were younger than
30-35 yrs in age. The work force now has at least 20 yrs (Civil Service
Retirement eligible?) and the FAA MANDATES retirement at age 56.

If they were hired in 1982 at age 30, they will turn 56 twenty-six years
later. That is 2008, current information shows that 75% of the controller
workforce is eligible to retire in the NEXT 4 YEARS !!!

Hang on to your hats boys, we are in for a rough ride.

BT

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:jD83d.99902$yh.97342@fed1read05...

The FAA wastes most of its budget. The Wall Street Journal makes a
favorite
target of air traffic control systems that cost ten times what off the
shelf
equipment could do better. The FAA spends decades and millions of
dollars
developing new technologies and programs which were obsolete before they
even began studying them and then cancels them at the last minute.

They build architecturally monstrous ATC facilities that don't work
right
from the day they are opened, have leaky roofs, cracks in the walls and
floors, substandard plumbing, inadequate parking, and poor security. The
moldy LA facility that they are complaining about is moldy because of
managerial negligence, not age.

The FAA budget should not only be cut, but much of the management should
be
brought up on charges for criminal dereliction of duty.

I did my Master's Thesis on the first 10years of FAA after the 1981 PATCO
affair so I really don't want to get started on it again. But the above
statements are correct about the FAA studies for equipment and
cancellations
and the comparison to COS (Commercial Off the Shelf) implementation costs.

Getting the ATC system up and running after 1981 took more than 10yrs and
more than 10 times the original estimated cost than originally promised to
President Regain in 1981.

Let's just go look at what happened last week to LAX ARTCC. A computer
that
controls the communication switching has a built in self test (BIT) that
needs to be reset every 30days, a "reset" of the computer so the computer
knows it's still a computer. Some "maintenance" was not accomplished in
time
so the 30day bit timer ran out and rather than flag a warning on day 29
the
system just shuts down at the end of day 30.

The poor computer maintainer will be fired.. not the FAA higher ups that
bought the POS and approved it in the beginning.

Think about this, manpower studies have told the FAA leadership that more
than 1000 new controllers need to be hired and trained every year to try
and
make it through the future controller retirements. Right now they are
getting less than 1/2 that number.

Most of the current ATC manpower were hired after 1981 and were younger
than
30-35 yrs in age. The work force now has at least 20 yrs (Civil Service
Retirement eligible?) and the FAA MANDATES retirement at age 56.

If they were hired in 1982 at age 30, they will turn 56 twenty-six years
later. That is 2008, current information shows that 75% of the controller
workforce is eligible to retire in the NEXT 4 YEARS !!!

Hang on to your hats boys, we are in for a rough ride.

I don't see them hanging around, either. I do see more and more people
hanging around the flight schools talking to students about a career in ATC.

In article jD83d.99902$yh.97342@fed1read05, "BTIZ"
wrote:

Let's just go look at what happened last week to LAX ARTCC. A computer
that
controls the communication switching has a built in self test (BIT) that
needs to be reset every 30days, a "reset" of the computer so the computer
knows it's still a computer. Some "maintenance" was not accomplished in
time
so the 30day bit timer ran out and rather than flag a warning on day 29
the
system just shuts down at the end of day 30.

The poor computer maintainer will be fired.. not the FAA higher ups that
bought the POS and approved it in the beginning.

Accepting a system with that kind of workaround is valid from
a system engineering perspective.

--
Bob Noel
Seen on Kerry's campaign airplane: "the real deal"
oh yeah baby.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:19:05 GMT, Bob Noel
wrote in
::

In article jD83d.99902$yh.97342@fed1read05, "BTIZ"
wrote:

Let's just go look at what happened last week to LAX ARTCC. A computer
that
controls the communication switching has a built in self test (BIT) that
needs to be reset every 30days, a "reset" of the computer so the computer
knows it's still a computer. Some "maintenance" was not accomplished in
time
so the 30day bit timer ran out and rather than flag a warning on day 29
the
system just shuts down at the end of day 30.

The poor computer maintainer will be fired.. not the FAA higher ups that
bought the POS and approved it in the beginning.

Accepting a system with that kind of workaround is valid from
a system engineering perspective.

It's unclear to me why you use the term 'workaround' in this context.
Exactly what is being worked around? The inability of FAA to think of
a warning bell?

From an ergonomic standpoint, a system that intentionally disables a
functioning critical system, resulting in the entirely avoidable
endangerment of hundreds of human lives, is a total failure. The
individual who decided upon such a scheme should be held responsible
for the cost of the 5 Worker's Compensation claims filed as a result
of this outrageous communications outage.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:17:08 -0700, "BTIZ"
wrote in jD83d.99902$yh.97342@fed1read05::

Hang on to your hats boys, we are in for a rough ride.

Naw. There's no need to train new ATC personnel for the future. The
resulting shortage of ATC staffing will be used as justification to
enable Boeing to take over ATC operations (can you say 'user fees').
Then US ATC will be based entirely on satellite communications.
Shortly after the next inevitable solar storm, all the airline flights
in the US will fall out of the sky... :-(