emergency chute

66: not very many skydivers share this opinion (that squares turn into
the wind). I experimented with the theory a half dozen times when I was
jumping solo and not once did the canopy ever turn into the wind.

2NO

Hi

While it is clear that square reserves are a good idea for the few
glider pilots who have some parachuting experience, there was a good
posting which pointed out that far more injuries would happen if all
glider pilots had to undergo even minimal parachute training then
currently occur when pilots bail out under round reserves with no
training, which fortunately does not happen very often.

I have a hypothetical question for for those with parachuting
experience, if your hands were tied to each other and to your waste,
(withjust enough movement to operate the rip cord) and you were thrown
out of an airplane strapped into your glider reserver, would you prefer
to have a round canopy or a square one?

It seems some chutes, like this one

I use a Rigging Innovations "Aviator" P-124, which has a ram-air
(square) chute designed for airmen who may have no prior jump
experience. The web page for the product is he

http://www.rigginginnovations.com/products/aviator.html

might be no worse that a round one, but what about a more typical square
reserve chute that we are likely come across in South Africa, like this
one?

If you are in South Africa there is manufacturer under the name PISA,
which manufactures a very good square canopy Tempo.


Thanks


Ian

As I understand the comments, the "square" chute would allow the "pilot" to
fly the canopy. They can be directed and with the ability to flare at the
end of the flight, just like with any other aircraft, they would therefore
have the ability to cushion the landing.

So, anyone trained would prefer a "square" chute.

So, accepting this as true, there is still one concern that needs to be
addressed. In a 2 place sailplane, the passenger gets a parachute. Even
though the pilot may have the training, the chances are very high that not
all of the passengers will have the required training, and may not
understand about flaring. Would that mean that the passenger should have a
round chute and just accept their lumps, so to speak?

Colin N12HS

snip Would that mean that the passenger should have a round chute and
just accept their lumps, so to speak? /snip

Colin: Yes, exactly.

OC: as the unidentified rigger said, the square. The chances of the
pilot being dazed and confused to the point of not even being able to
find and operate the brake/steering toggles are small, and if unable to
do so by injury or unconsciousness, I would still rather be under the
square.

2NO

OK, given the preference of those who know more than I do, I have to
ask the obvious question: Why are there still round chutes? If I order
a National or Softie from my local glider haberdasher... won't I get a
conical? I'm not disagreeing with the assessement of thems that knows.
But I would like to understand why we haven't seen a wholesale
conversion to the square.

Not a troll... though it has the earmarks, doesn't it?


wrote:
snip Would that mean that the passenger should have a round chute
and
just accept their lumps, so to speak? /snip

Colin: Yes, exactly.

OC: as the unidentified rigger said, the square. The chances of the
pilot being dazed and confused to the point of not even being able to
find and operate the brake/steering toggles are small, and if unable
to
do so by injury or unconsciousness, I would still rather be under the
square.

2NO

fiveniner: it's simple. The round chutes are cheaper and require no
training (a lot less, anyway).

I *am* surprised, however, that the square chutes aren't a tad more
popular than they are. That's probably because of a simple lack of
knowledge and the institutional momemtum of using rounds/conicals for
so many years...

ted/2NO

To Fiveniner: you can buy directly from Softie a square emergency
parachute.

To 66: it is called weathervaning...go and make a jump, don't release
your brakes and see what the canopy will do. Especially the big ones
like Raven IV.

To Eric Greenwell: no it doesn't work like that. Round/conical will
descent at that rate no matter what. There will be a small difference
in descent rate between suspended loads (heavy pilot versus light
pilot) but not a really significant number. If you would like I can
swing by the airport and drop you a book with explanations about
parachute desingns. I don't want to type the explanation because would
be to lenghty.

Reliability. Perhaps you should ask the experts on
emergency egress, in the case of the UK it is a company
called Martin Baker. Ask them how many of their seats
use square chutes. A canopy capable of opening safely
at the sort of speeds involved in ejections is good
enough for me.
If sport chutes are so reliable why do sky divers have
a reserve?

An emergency chute is designed to work even under adverse
conditions. A sport parachute has a completely different
design concept.


At 12:04 06 April 2005, wrote:
OK, given the preference of those who know more than
I do, I have to
ask the obvious question: Why are there still round
chutes? If I order
a National or Softie from my local glider haberdasher...
won't I get a
conical? I'm not disagreeing with the assessement of
thems that knows.
But I would like to understand why we haven't seen
a wholesale
conversion to the square.

Not a troll... though it has the earmarks, doesn't
it?


wrote:
Would that mean that the passenger should have a
round chute
and
just accept their lumps, so to speak?

Colin: Yes, exactly.

OC: as the unidentified rigger said, the square. The
chances of the
pilot being dazed and confused to the point of not
even being able to
find and operate the brake/steering toggles are small,
and if unable
to
do so by injury or unconsciousness, I would still
rather be under the
square.

2NO

Yeah, thats the idea...use Martin Baker 0-0 seat and you have no issues.

Don: Don't confuse "square" with "sport". Emergency/reserve "square"
parachutes are designed very differently than their main/sport
counterparts. Also, skydivers use a reserve for two reasons: (1)
main/sport parachutes are designed with flight performance as a major
design criteria; they are very reliable but not as reliable as
reserve/emergency chutes. (2) The FAA prohibits intentional parachute
jumps without a reserve. (3) It would be really dumb anyway

2NO