Could training at a towered airport have prevented the ADIZ bust

airman wrote:
The CNN pilot-reporter, Miles O'Brien, made a good point. These guys took
off from an uncontrolled airfield, \

Smoketown is almost inside LNS's class D airspace. I've been into LNS
a dozen times for maintenance. I learned to fly at a similar towered
field. Learning class B procedures was a completely different thing.
The ADIZ is unlike anything else. It's not an air traffic concept.
ATC isn't tasked with facilitating or enforcing it, just issuing the
squawk codes. ATC doesn't even know if you've really filed an ADIZ
plan or not. If they don't get an IFR strip on you (which is how
ADIZ plans get to controllers), and you assert that you did file one,
they will (as time permits) manually allocate you a squawk code.
They were emphatic in local pilot meetings that they are not the
flight plan police.

Flying in the DC area with several P-areas, and a rather busy class B
has never been for the faint of heart. Situational awareness is
the key.

I don't believe it has anything to do with being from an uncontrolled
field. Perhaps more from trying to fly an unfamilar route straight
through the ADIZ. Would love to see their planned route on their map.

But it brings up the thought that if they'd simply been using flight
following, the whole mess would've probably been avoided.

So one question is (because I don't know), is flight following easy to
get in that area?

Thanks!

Kev wrote:

So one question is (because I don't know), is flight following easy to
get in that area?

Yep. It's real easy to have your flight followed by an F-16. :-(

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:id5he.101$n95.47@trndny08...
Kev wrote:

So one question is (because I don't know), is flight following easy to
get in that area?

Yep. It's real easy to have your flight followed by an F-16. :-(

Would an A2A missile be able to lock on the exhaust of a C150?

Matt Barrow wrote:

Would an A2A missile be able to lock on the exhaust of a C150?

I would lay heavy odds that they're not using heat-seekers in the ADIZ. Too big
a chance that it would lock into a turbine coming into Dulles or Reagan. Almost
certainly they're armed with missiles that use a visual lock on the target.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:wcche.44$Vu6.8@trndny03...
Matt Barrow wrote:

Would an A2A missile be able to lock on the exhaust of a C150?

I would lay heavy odds that they're not using heat-seekers in the ADIZ.
Too big a chance that it would lock into a turbine coming into Dulles or
Reagan. Almost certainly they're armed with missiles that use a visual
lock on the target.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

AFAIK, there are no A2A missles in the US inventory that are targeted
visually.

You have heat seakers (AIM9x), passive radar (AIM7) and active radar missles
(AMRAAM.) Maverick missles have a TV-guided version but they are used
against armor.

One very short squeeze of the trigger would fire enough 20mm to bring down
just about any light single.

Which brings up this question: Why did they need the F16s at all? Aren't
the Blackhawks armed with 20mm guns mounted in the doors? Did they not
know the type of aircraft until the F16s arrived on station or did the helo
get a viz ID first? If so, why not call off the F16s? The Blackhawk
probably could have blown the C150 down with rotor wash on it's own.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

On Thu, 12 May 2005 02:55:43 GMT, "airman"
wrote:

The CNN pilot-reporter, Miles O'Brien, made a good point. These guys took
off from an uncontrolled airfield, implying that they were not adept with
ordinary ATC as would pilots be who were trained or who are resident at a
Class D or C towered field. I remember how difficult it was to train at a
Class D airport, wishing that I could have made my early training hours
easier at an un-towered field. Now I'm grateful for all the angst and
mike-fright I went through and eventually overcame.

Never had that problem.
I trained out of an uncontrolled field, but it's only 11.3 to one that
is. My instructors made sure I was over there a lot.

Would it have made any difference had they taken off from a controlled
field? Most likely not.

When the President was here in Michigan the TFR was centered on MBS
which put us just slightly outside of the no fly zone. Still in the
TFR though. We sat there listening to a plane that was coming from
down around Detroit that had taken off from one of the controlled
fields. As he was tooling through MBS's air space he remarked,
"Ahhh... MBS approach, there's a jet off my wing tip! What does that
mean?" I remember he was headed for Harbor Beach which is one of the
rich resort areas.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com