Practice stalls on your own?

Cub Driver wrote:
On 24 May 2005 10:51:42 -0700, wrote:


Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?


Gosh, I think it's dumb not to!

The first thing I do when I have had a lay-off (which generally means
every March, except that this year the lay-off ended in April) is to
out over some scraggly fields a few miles west of the airport, climb
up to 4,000 ft, and do slow flight and power-off and power-on
(climbing) stalls.

Gives me a feel for the airplane. I would do the same every time I
found myself in a new (strange) airplane.

I've transitioned to several different aircraft types and in each case I
always went up and practiced stalls in the airplane ASAP after being
signed off for solo. I even did them in my weight-shift..

My current plane, a Kolb Firestar, has its own behavior that is
important for me to be familiar with. In particular, it is somewhat
easier than other planes I've flown to get into a secondary stall when
recoving from the first stall (power-off). The airspeed recovers nicely,
but the AOA can go again past critical easily without the right
technique, especially power off.....

So, in my small experience, regular practice with stalls is really
necessary for me to keep current with my airplane....

My next project in this plane is cross-controlled stalls, which I'll
probably start practicing this evening......

LS
N646F


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

In article .com, wrote:
Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?

Yes. No question about it.
(I practise spins for fun. Yes, I am in an aerobatic plane (a glider no
less) and I am wearing a parachute. It's important for me to be able to
recognise the onset of a stall/spin in a glider as in the weak
conditions we have here, to stay in a thermal you often have to fly at
the ragged edge of a stall in as tight as turn as you dare).

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Actually, as a CFI I think it is unsafe to *not* practice stalls on
your own. If you understand what is happening during a stall, and have
been taught by an instructor who wasn't afraid of them (some are), then
there is absolutely nothing dangerous about doing them.

I've flown with private pilots who clearly have not practiced basic
maneuvers since their last BFR, if then. They are scared of stalls,
'slow flight' to them is 1.8 Vs0, a 'steep turn' is 20 degrees of bank.


To maintain my personal proficiency, I try to go up by myself at least
once a month, and just do 90 minutes of 'basics'. I advise my students
and BFR rides to do the same. Slow flight in particular is very useful
in increasing your 'feel' for the airplane. Go up, do some approach and
departure (power-off and power-on respectively) stalls. Do some steep
turns, and don't let yourself off the hook until everything you do is
at *least* PTS standard.

The only reason people avoid practicing stalls is because they fear
them. If you are properly trained, and perform them at a 'safe'
altitude above the ground, there is *nothing* to be fearful of. If you
fear stalls, then you need to have some work with a CFI whjo doesn't,
and who understands them and can teach them to you. You can see how
scaed many people are of stalls by watching your local pilots land; I
can't tell you how many pilots I see add an extra 10 knots down the
pipe 'just to be safe'. Works fine with a 172 on 5000 foot runway; but
it really isn't good airmanship.

Practicing the basics (including stalls) is a very good way to improve
one's skills. I can't advise strongly enough that it is a *very* good
idea to devote some time every month (depending on how often you fly)
to just going out and doing the stuff you did in your first 10 lessons
as a student.

Cheers,

Chris

In article . com,
wrote:

Actually, as a CFI I think it is unsafe to *not* practice stalls on
your own. If you understand what is happening during a stall, and have
been taught by an instructor who wasn't afraid of them (some are), then
there is absolutely nothing dangerous about doing them.

I've flown with private pilots who clearly have not practiced basic
maneuvers since their last BFR, if then. They are scared of stalls,
'slow flight' to them is 1.8 Vs0, a 'steep turn' is 20 degrees of bank.


To maintain my personal proficiency, I try to go up by myself at least
once a month, and just do 90 minutes of 'basics'. I advise my students
and BFR rides to do the same. Slow flight in particular is very useful
in increasing your 'feel' for the airplane. Go up, do some approach and
departure (power-off and power-on respectively) stalls. Do some steep
turns, and don't let yourself off the hook until everything you do is
at *least* PTS standard.

The only reason people avoid practicing stalls is because they fear
them. If you are properly trained, and perform them at a 'safe'
altitude above the ground, there is *nothing* to be fearful of. If you
fear stalls, then you need to have some work with a CFI whjo doesn't,
and who understands them and can teach them to you. You can see how
scaed many people are of stalls by watching your local pilots land; I
can't tell you how many pilots I see add an extra 10 knots down the
pipe 'just to be safe'. Works fine with a 172 on 5000 foot runway; but
it really isn't good airmanship.

Practicing the basics (including stalls) is a very good way to improve
one's skills. I can't advise strongly enough that it is a *very* good
idea to devote some time every month (depending on how often you fly)
to just going out and doing the stuff you did in your first 10 lessons
as a student.


Well said,
When I first started practicing stalls and slow flight on my own I was
scared! I had very good aircraft control, even at that point, but the
fear of a spin was always in the back of my head...

But guess what, I was trained well and every one looked good. Just like
my first long cross country was scary because suddenly I had to figure
flight following frequencies, communicate, navigate, enter the pattern
at an unfamiliar airport all on my own, but man did I learn a lot about
where I wasn't truly proficient and fixed those problems quick!



A little fear is good! It keeps you alert and non-complacent! I think
we should all be a little scared on every takeoff and approach to land
as well-it is a high risk part of the flight and that extra awareness
gives you an edge!

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

wrote:

Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

I used to practice "approach" stalls at least once a year. Of course, one of
those occassions would be the flight review every two years. I never practiced
departure stalls because it's extremely difficult (for me at least) to get a
lightly loaded Maule to stall at full power without running the risk of an
inadvertent "hammerhead" or tail slide. The CFIs from whom I took flight reviews
would also get uncomfortable with the deck angle when we tried it and we'd
usually wind up faking it by pulling the power a bit. That's even when I slowed
to near-stall speed in level flight before adding power and raising the nose.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

Good Landings are a result of expertise in slow flight and knowing
exactly where the stall begins...You pretty much need to have a good
feel for stalls to be proficient at short field landing and routing
full stall landings.
There is very good reason that demonstration of approach and departure
stalls are part of the BFR. They are critical maneuvers which are
intimately connected to the two most "dangerous" times in flying.
Yes, I do stalls all the time. Usually alone in the plane and never
below 3000 feet. I also learned to do them under the hood and I would
recommend that any IFR pilot get appropriate training in that maneuver.

Many years ago, long before I ever thought about being a flight
instructor, I met a commercial instrument rated pilot who flew for CAP
and would not do stalls without an instructor. I thought this was
ridiculous then. I still think it's ridiculous. Sstalls performed
properly in an appropriate aiplane should present negligible additional
risk for the proficient pilot. However, proficiency isn't what it used
to be and I am beginning to see a risk to solo stalls that wasn't there
before.

Even a perfectly flown stall has the potential for spin entry (wing
drop) if exactly the wrong gust is encountered at exactly the wrong
time, and most of us can't fly a perfect stall every time - we are all
human and make mistakes. For a proficient pilot, a spin entry is not a
big deal in most airplanes. After all, it is only the entry, and most
normal category light airplanes easily recover from the entry. It's
only once the spin starts to wind up that it becomes an issue. Of
course there are airplanes where that's not true - but most of us are
not likely to fly one.

The issue is - will you recognize the spin entry for what it is and
react appropriately? If you have been trained in full stalls, spin
entries, spins, and spin recoveries, the answer is probably yes - but
these days, many people have not been.

In the glider world, it's different. Most privately owned gliders (and
even many of the rentals!) are single seat. It's not unusual to send a
student with less than 20 hours total time off in a single seater to
check himself out. Since you have to make the first landing count,
doing some stalls to 'feel out' the handling of the glider is not
optional. Because of this, spin recovery training for glider pilots is
essentially universal. No, the FAA doesn't require it - but glider
instructors tend to be rugged individualists who feel that they know
better than the FAA what is necessary - and they tend ot be right.

In the light airplane world, things are not so good. While the FAA
mandates spin training for airplane CFI's, spins are not generally
tested on the CFI ride. As a result, the training is often cursory -
as little as three spins of one turn or less each. That's barely
enough to start feeling comfortable with the recovery, and nowhere near
enough to teach. On top of that, many of today's popular trainers
can't be spun. Spin training for the private pilot is no longer the
rule but the exception. So we have lots of pilot out there whose
knowledge of spin entry and spin recovery is extremely limited.

I'm not going to say that those people should not practice stalls solo
- everyone has a right to choose his own level of risk. I will say
that I sure wouldn't go up in an airplane with one who did, unless I
had my own set of controls. I would also not permit solo stalls for a
student who hadn't spun. When students practice stalls they somewhat
routinely botch them, and that means they're putting themselves at risk
of a spin with enough altitude to recover. I consider a spin a presolo
maneuver and a prerequisite for solo stalls.

As for myself, I don't practice stalls - but when checking myself out
in a new airplane, I do prefer to stall it before I land it.

Michael

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you are
a private pilot.

Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?

Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your thinking
of this topic.

Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

Thanks

You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had proper
training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated flight
attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated and crossed
controlled entries.
Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training. EXTREMELY
competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in stall training and
make sure you have had basic spin entry and recovery as well.
With this training in your tool kit, you should be perfectly safe in
practicing stalls solo.

Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in
ink.net:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you
are a private pilot.

Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?

Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your
thinking of this topic.

Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

Thanks

You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had
proper training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated
flight attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated
and crossed controlled entries.
Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training.
EXTREMELY competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in
stall training and make sure you have had basic spin entry and
recovery as well. With this training in your tool kit, you should be
perfectly safe in practicing stalls solo.

Dudley Henriques


I agree Dudley. My students get this kind of training. I would only
add that to stay safe, keep practicing and get at least an annual eval.
I know every two years is the requirement, but remember the requirments
are minimum standards.

Pilot/CFI/CFII

"PilotCFI" wrote in message
4...
"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in
ink.net:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, so say you are post-solo and approved to perform stalls OR you
are a private pilot.

Is it smart to go out and practice stalls on a normal basis? For
proficiency and for fun?

Or are stalls something you should only being doing for training?

I would like to hear from both pilots and instructors on your
thinking of this topic.

Also what percentage of you out there do practice them on your own?

Thanks

You can consider yourself safe to perform solo stalls if you have had
proper training in stalls not only entered from normally anticipated
flight attitudes but also from abnormal entries such as accelerated
and crossed controlled entries.
Competent instructors will make sure you have had this training.
EXTREMELY competent instructors will exceed the book requirement in
stall training and make sure you have had basic spin entry and
recovery as well. With this training in your tool kit, you should be
perfectly safe in practicing stalls solo.

Dudley Henriques


I agree Dudley. My students get this kind of training. I would only
add that to stay safe, keep practicing and get at least an annual eval.
I know every two years is the requirement, but remember the requirments
are minimum standards.

Pilot/CFI/CFII

I'm a great fan of "practicing". I've always advocated to the pilots I've
trained, the adoption of what I call a "never ending training mode" that
treats every flight, no matter how trivial a flight, as a training flight
requiring a serious self appraisal, adjustment in technique, and/or
correction as an ongoing result.
This requires a professional approach to everyday flying that uses a highly
developed habit patterns where a pilot engages in a constant self evaluation
and correction pattern geared toward maximizing his/her performance on a
constant basis.
I like a habit pattern in a pilot that causes him/her to come off a
perfectly executed flight thinking about how he could have made it better.
:-)

Dudley Henriques