How do you leave this airport IMC?

Bob Gardner wrote:

You may be remembering some Canadian regs. The MSA is irrelevant. It has no
operational significance and is not part of an instrument approach
procedure. Under Part 91, you don't have any takeoff minimums.

I thought published takeoff minimums applied to Part 91 operations. No??


Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Bob Gardner wrote:

You may be remembering some Canadian regs. The MSA is irrelevant. It
has no operational significance and is not part of an instrument
approach procedure. Under Part 91, you don't have any takeoff minimums.


I thought published takeoff minimums applied to Part 91 operations. No??

I just reviewed 91.175 and a Part 91 operation isn't included in the
takeoff minimums section.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:

Bob Gardner wrote:

You may be remembering some Canadian regs. The MSA is irrelevant. It has no
operational significance and is not part of an instrument approach
procedure. Under Part 91, you don't have any takeoff minimums.

I thought published takeoff minimums applied to Part 91 operations. No??

Matt

No.

In article , Bob Gardner wrote:
You may be remembering some Canadian regs. The MSA is irrelevant. It has no
operational significance and is not part of an instrument approach
procedure. Under Part 91, you don't have any takeoff minimums.

Actually, I did my IFR in the U.S. I finished up with Spence.

It's just a case of forgetting an aspect of The System that I hadn't
used before. This thread has been very valuable in setting me straight.
Usenet near its best :-)


Morris

Journeyman wrote:
On the way to Pinckneyville last weekend, I stopped at Jimmy Stewart
Field, Indiana, PA. KIDI. I had to shoot the GPS 28 approach with
a cirle to land 10. There's a nice transition off the Revloc VOR.

Since we had a late start, we had planned to stop there for the night,
but by the time we left for the hotel, the overcast had broken up and
it was clear. Next morning, we left VFR.

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


Morris

Whenever an IFR approach procedure is created for an airport, the
procedure specialist has to also review the airport for diverse
departures and ensure there are no penetrations to a standard 200' per
NM climb gradient in any direction, assuming a climb to 400' above the
Departure end of runway (DER) before any turns are commenced. If there
are penetrations, then he/she has to create a departure procedure to
avoid those obstacles. If the only departure penetrations are close to
the airport (within 3 miles) and can be avoided visually, then the
specialist only has to provide a ceiling that is higher than the
obstacle, and a visibility value that allows the obstacle to be seen
from the runway end. If the penetration is farther out than 3 statute
miles, then the specialist either has to provide a climb gradient that
will clear the obstacle if a pilot happens to turn directly toward it
(or if the obstacle is straight ahead), or if it's more than 15 degrees
off to either side of straight ahead, then they can provide an altitude
to climb to before allowing a turn that will ensure a 200' climb
gradient clears the obstacle after the turn.
From the example you gave, departures from Rwy 28 only have low,
close-in obstacles within 1 mile of the DER that can be avoided visually
and no other obstacle penetrations beyond that. Departing Rwy 10, it
would appear that you have both low close-in obstacles within 1 mile
that can be cleared visually, and also other obstacles further than 3
miles from DER and to the right or left of a plus/minus 15 degree splay
from the DER that can't be cleared visually, but will be cleared as long
as you climb to 2300 before beginning any turns.

To answer your question, if it's 300/1, you would have to depart runway
28 and can turn toward the airway once reaching 400' above DER. (You had
the minima reversed, Rwy 10 is 600/1, and Rwy 28 is 300/1.)

You can view a table that gives the TERPS specialist instructions on
what needs to be published on a departure procedure at this website
(page 4 of 74);
http://av-info.faa.gov/terps/Directi...s/8260.46B.pdf

Newer departure procedures would also list the obstacles that are close
in and also the ones that cause creation of a departure route to avoid
the obstacles, older procedures don't have the obstacle notes.

JPH

On Fri, 27 May 2005 17:30:21 -0500, Journeyman
wrote:


Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?


One way:

Depart Rwy 28; cross the end at least 35'AGL; climb at least at 200 ft/nm
until the MEA.

It seems like a straight forward DP to me. What is it that is confusing to
you?

(And I won't get into the lack of a legal requirement for most Part 91
flights).


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Journeyman wrote in
:

Looking at the plates, 10/28 has minima 300-1 and 600-1 respectively.
The procedure for runwya 10 is to climb runway heading to 2300 before
proceeding on course. The MSA for the area is 4200. How do you get
from the DP to the nearest Victor airway safely when it's 300 and 1?

I'm not sure I understand your question. You just fly the published DP.
If you climb on runway heading until above 2300, then you will have
sufficient obstacle clearance *in that direction*. The MSA is based on
any obstacle in any direction, unless otherwise specified, so you don't
need to use it for everything. A DP takes into consideration the
obstacles, and if you follow it, you will have sufficient clearance.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin