Neil Lawson of whiteplanes, died yesterday

That really makes me want to pay attention to an intellectual such as
yourself.

Likewise with your post Gary.

What are you adding to the discussion apart from being sarcastic toward
a someone who has clearly just lost a close friend?

Nick.

No sarcasm intended but calling people names never really solved any
problems or furthered intelligent discussion

And by the way, this is one reason I rarely respond to any postings on
RAS

Jj,

given that;

a/ the tragedy happened less than 48 hours ago
b/ you werent there and know none of the facts
c/ you have only heard the vague details from somebody
who wasnt there, who heard from somebody else..

why dont you have a bit of tact, do us all a favour,
and as we say in the UK..

Wind your neck in !

There will be a full accident investigation report
into this tragedy, once thats published, perhaps then
you might consider it to be a more approriate time
to forward your views...

Now lets drop this until the investigation has been
completed and show at least some respect to Neil, and
those left grieving!

Toby

At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66

This is terrible news. I knew Neil well - he always
had time for a chat and I marvelled at his skill with
a camera. The week we had in Jaca was the most fun
I've had on a gliding holiday - largely because we
had such a good laugh over a 'Pacharan' or four....every
night.
He'll be sorely missed but he leaves an incomparable
legacy.

Paul






At 15:30 10 August 2005, wrote:
What a tragedy.

Neil was THE world best gliding photographer.

Condolenses to his family and friends.

Whilst I never met Neil personally we used to talk
online frequently
discussing gliding and photography.

A truely sad day.

Al

How could anyone persist after receiving a PERSONAL
E-mail. How rude and inconsiderate. Perhaps he doesn't
know who you are or maybe he just doesn't care but
you could avoid all of your suffering by choosing,
which authors posts you open.




At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66

On 11 Aug 2005 16:53:01 GMT, John Sinclair
wrote:

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

After the facts of the incident are know. Not when you are
speculating on the causes.

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66

This event is 'sub judice' and is being investigated
by the police and the AIB on behalf of HM Coroner.
In view of the serious nature of the event and the
tragic consequences I would urge everyone to think
of the wisdom of comment until the facts are known,
and they will be in due course.
I feel that it is inappropriate for people to be exchanging
personal insults at any time but especially now.
Can we please all agree that everyone has an opinion
but for the time being it may be best that such opinions
are not publicly expressed.


At 17:36 11 August 2005, Bob wrote:
On 11 Aug 2005 16:53:01 GMT, John Sinclair
wrote:

Jeremy,
I stand ready to discuss a serious problem that exists
in sailplane racing, just as soon as you can control
your emotions enough to stop hurling insults. Your
posting on ras is mild compared to the torrent of abuse
you used in your private E-mail to me.

I know this isn't the best time to discuss this, but
tell me just when is the best time to take action to
prevent the next needless tragidy?

After the facts of the incident are know. Not when
you are
speculating on the causes.

JJ Sinclair

At 08:36 11 August 2005, Jeremy Hood wrote:
JJ, You are clearly a total moron. I emailed you personally
about this subject, yet you persist in your irresponsible,
innaccurate, and sensationalist cr@p. You have no idea
what you are talking about. Do us all a favour and
shut up.



At 01:54 11 August 2005, Jj Sinclair wrote:

Well, Kirk, the first poster said the pilot was finishing.
He also said
the pilot was arrested, why? Because he committed a
homicide. That's
right he was responsible for the death of an innocent
bystander. This
tragic loss of life occured because the junior pilot
was performing the
prescribed finish maneuver. He was flying the finish
gate because
that's what we do, we sanction it, its in our rules.

The local authoraties did their job, they arrested
the guy responsible
and the competition was suspended.

How many more finish gate accidents must we endure
before this
outmoded, unneccessary and proven unsafe finish gate
is abolished and
replaced by the mandatory GPS finish cylinder?

You really don't want to argue that the pilot wasn't
operating his
aircraft below 500 feet (not in the act of landing)
and that he wasn't
within 500 feet of a person, do you?

JJ Sinclair

wrote:
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

But, JJ, tell me how a correctly performed contest
finish at 50 ft
(per current SRA rules) and per FARs (no overflying
of people, man-made
objects, reckless, etc) has direct relevance with
this accident?

By your logic, takeoffs should be done away with (ref
groundloop that
hit and injured spectator at Tonopah) at contests,
too.

And how do you know it was a finish - it could have
been a pre-arranged
photo op after the finish, coordinated between the
photographer and the
pilot - that went horribly wrong. Not the first time
that has
happened.

Sorry, you are on the wrong soapbox this time. Take
a deep breath and
go fix a glider or something.

Kirk
66