Ethanol Mandate for Iowa?

So, rather than bitching about the world turning to a gasahol blend of some
sort (which it seems to be doing) let's light a fire under those who hold
the STCs to determine WHY gasahol is bad for the aircraft environment and do
something about it.

Bravo! I've been asking this for years, to no avail.

What the heck is in an aircraft engine/fuel system that can't be made
"ethanol safe" for more than a few bucks worth of rubber seals?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
So, rather than bitching about the world turning to a gasahol blend
of some sort (which it seems to be doing) let's light a fire under
those who hold the STCs to determine WHY gasahol is bad for the
aircraft environment and do something about it.

Bravo! I've been asking this for years, to no avail.

What the heck is in an aircraft engine/fuel system that can't be made
"ethanol safe" for more than a few bucks worth of rubber seals?

Really. Solve the problem, not the symptom.

In article ,
"JohnH" wrote:
What the heck is in an aircraft engine/fuel system that can't be made
"ethanol safe" for more than a few bucks worth of rubber seals?

Really. Solve the problem, not the symptom.

It seems like the problem is excessive regulation, leading to shortages
in supply. The sumptom is a fabricated need for products like
"gasohol." So I'm all for solving the problem.



JKG

"Jay Honeck" writes:

What the heck is in an aircraft engine/fuel system that can't be made
"ethanol safe" for more than a few bucks worth of rubber seals?

A pilot. Aviation is full of old farts who will latch on to some
anecdote about something being unsafe. They'll stop right there
instead of investigating to get good information. Even the thoughtful
pilots will often get shot down in their quest for good information.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...14f6e1df76730c

My guess is that you'll have to wait for a new generation of pilots to
fully embrace ethanol.

--kyler

Isn't Brazil flying a Cessna with gasahol or something like that?


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


RST Engineering wrote:
So, rather than bitching about the world turning to a gasahol blend of some
sort (which it seems to be doing) let's light a fire under those who hold
the STCs to determine WHY gasahol is bad for the aircraft environment and do
something about it.

I do not quite understand why gasahol burns well in old Ford tractors that
use Marvel carburetors and is prohibited in aircraft with Marvel
carburetors, other than some bureaucrat with a bad comb-over deciding it is
so. And, if there IS some sort of special part in the fuel system that is
attacked by ethanol, it isn't rocket science to specify a material for that
part that is NOT eaten by alcohol.

We can attack the problem politically and get buried under sheer numbers of
farmers vs. pilots or we can attack the problem with engineering and solve
it. Simply kvetching that we won't be able to play with our toy airplanes
like we used to be able to do isn't going to cut it.

Just like "pilots without medicals" (LSA) was denied for years, we CAN get
something done if we want it bad enough.

Jim

"Ross Richardson" wrote in message
...
Isn't Brazil flying a Cessna with gasahol or something like that?




Actually, they have a new aircraft produced specifically to run on
*ethanol*, and they have "300 to 400" small aircraft which have been
*converted* from gasoline to ethanol:

http://www.bellona.no/en/energy/37677.html

RST Engineering wrote:

I do not quite understand why gasahol burns well in old Ford tractors that
use Marvel carburetors and is prohibited in aircraft with Marvel
carburetors, other than some bureaucrat with a bad comb-over deciding it is
so.

What I've read in a number of places is that there are problems with issues
similar to vapor lock in aircraft. Since gasahol doesn't seem to be causing
problems in cars that cross the Rockies, it seems to me that this wouldn't be a
proble for a pilot who rarely exceeds 10,000' ASL.

If vapor problems are actually the issue, perhaps an STC with altitude limits is
in order?

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Jim,
You are right that we can attack the problem with scientific and
enginering studies. My quick search showed quite a few articles
relating to the subject

1. http://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2005/t...ram/P18201.HTM

"Effects of Ethanol as a Fuel Additive on General Aviation Aircraft
Fuel System Electrochemical Corrosion"

If you have the time, you can read the whole dissertation here

http://library.msstate.edu/etd/show....1072004-122317

then with your ingenuity and entrepreneural spirit, you can team up
with Dr. Xie to market a X-ray/Whiskey mystery oil for gasohol use in
GA aircraft ;-)

2. http://www.westbioenergy.org/dec2003/08.htm
"Can 85 Percent Ethanol Gasoline Replace Aviation Fuel?"

3. http://www.westbioenergy.org/reports...55029final.htm
"Airframe & Engine Modification and Testing Leading to FAA
Certification of AGE-85"

4. http://www.ncga.com/ethanol/main/energy.htm

"Ethanol-Based Aviation Fuel: Extensive research has shown that an
aviation fuel blend containing 85 percent ethanol offers superior
performance in prop-driven aircraft. The Federal Aviation
Administration and several universities are conducting research on
ethanol-based aviation fuel to determine the feasibility of the fuel as
an alternative to the leaded aviation fuel currently being used."

5. http://bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/pdf...ts/26/z313.pdf
"Engine endurance tests showed considerably less wear on ethanol than
on avgas. Consequently, it is estimated that the Time Between Overhaul
(TBO) in an engine on ethanol could easily be extended by 100% over
avgas."

Hai Longworth

You are right that we can attack the problem with scientific and
enginering studies. My quick search showed quite a few articles
relating to the subject

1. http://aiche.confex.com/aiche/2005/t...ram/P18201.HTM

"Effects of Ethanol as a Fuel Additive on General Aviation Aircraft
Fuel System Electrochemical Corrosion"

Big Snip of lots of good stuff

Thanks, Hai, for posting. This is great stuff!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:46:47 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
b3c_e.369489$x96.190155@attbi_s72::

if you make regular unleaded gasoline unavailable in
Iowa, you will make it impossible for many of us to fly our small
airplanes

Of course, this is an exaggeration. I've never used Mo-gas, and have
been flying aircraft who's engines were designed for 80/87 decades.