Approach speeds for ILS

In article , "C J Campbell"
wrote:

We get foggy here at Tacoma Narrows this time of year (which is the
reason I
post more on these groups in the winter than in the summer). One thing we
see a lot of is guys who fly the ILS too fast.

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling
is
well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet
overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can
land
at that speed. You don't need to configure for a short field landing, but
you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200
feet
of altitude, especially if you can't risk ballooning back up into the
soup.

otoh - I can slow my cherokee 140 down from 90 knots at the middle
marker to a good landing speed at the GIP. I know I can do it
because that's the way I've done every single ILS approach and that
was the way I was taught from day one.

ymmv

--
Bob Noel

"C J Campbell" wrote...

I have no problem with flying the ILS at 90 or 100 knots if the ceiling is
well above minimums, but it seems to me that if the ceiling is 200 feet
overcast you ought to be flying the approach slowly enough that you can land
at that speed. You don't need to configure for a short field landing, but
you are not going to slow from 90 knots to 60 in a Skyhawk in only 200 feet
of altitude, especially if you can't risk ballooning back up into the soup.

I think you may need to practice your ILS approaches, especially the transition
to visual and landing. The transition to visual is very difficult -- probably
moreso than flying the needles.

Try flying ILS approaches in full VMC conditions -- not even a hood -- but with
a safety pilot or instructor aboard. Let the outside stuff distract you from
your instrument scan, and force yourself to look back inside. Practice the
transition to visual at 200', including the power reduction, decel, flaps (if
you use more to land than you use in the approach), and flare. It is NOT the
same as your normal VFR landing, and it DOES require specific practice.

When you get proficient, only then should you attempt to fly when the weather is
anywhere near minimums.


Two lessons he

1) If the field is really at minimums, you have 200 feet to slow down to
landing speed. That is not much time. Better you should be ready to land
before you break out.

Nope -- not unless you are flying a Cat III certified airplane.

You should be ready to transition to land AFTER you break out! A C172 at 90
knots is only descending at 400-500 FPM. At 200' AGL, you have 20-30 seconds
until touchdown, even if you don't flare at all! You can do a lot of
decelerating, reconfiguring, and flaring in 20 seconds. Since the only
reconfiguring you should have to do, if any, is final flaps, you have plenty of
time!


2) If you decide to go missed, then go missed. Don't change your mind just
because you got a glimpse of the runway as you were flying overhead.

That is good advice.

"John R Weiss" wrote:
You can do a lot of decelerating, reconfiguring, and flaring in 20
seconds. Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any,
is final flaps, you have plenty of time!

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too :-)

"Roy Smith" wrote...
Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any,
is final flaps, you have plenty of time!

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too :-)

I consider that part of the 'stick and throttle' part of flying that is done
constantly, not "reconfiguring," which is done a couple times per flight.
Besides, some airplanes don't take well to idle at 200' (including my current
744)... ;-)

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:OSzPb.98715$5V2.327271@attbi_s53...
"Roy Smith" wrote...

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too :-)

Besides, some airplanes don't take well to idle at 200' (including my
current
744)... ;-)

If you brought it in 50% faster than normal, it might well do...

Paul

"Paul Sengupta" wrote...

Besides, some airplanes don't take well to idle at 200' (including my
current 744)... ;-)

If you brought it in 50% faster than normal, it might well do...

Can only do a missed approach in that situation -- goes against the "stabilized
approach" rule... :-)

In article OSzPb.98715$5V2.327271@attbi_s53,
"John R Weiss" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote...
Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any,
is final flaps, you have plenty of time!

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too :-)

I consider that part of the 'stick and throttle' part of flying that is done
constantly, not "reconfiguring," which is done a couple times per flight.

I s'pose. But you really shouldn't be playing with the throttle
constantly either. Somewhere along the line I picked up adding "DFWTP"
to my ILS checklist. DFWTP at GS intercept, GUMPS at DH. It stands for
"Don't F*** With The Power".

GUMPS at DH

You don't mean a GUMPs check at decision height, do you? I want everything
checked well before decision height so there's nothing to do at decision
height except either land or go missed.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article OSzPb.98715$5V2.327271@attbi_s53,
"John R Weiss" wrote:

I s'pose. But you really shouldn't be playing with the throttle
constantly either. Somewhere along the line I picked up adding "DFWTP"
to my ILS checklist. DFWTP at GS intercept, GUMPS at DH. It stands for
"Don't F*** With The Power".

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article OSzPb.98715$5V2.327271@attbi_s53,
"John R Weiss" wrote:

"Roy Smith" wrote...
Since the only reconfiguring you should have to do, if any,
is final flaps, you have plenty of time!

Pulling the power back to idle might be nice too :-)

I consider that part of the 'stick and throttle' part of flying that is
done
constantly, not "reconfiguring," which is done a couple times per
flight.

I s'pose.

Autothrottle does all that in Weiss' airplane and he slept through it.

Hmm, I was taught to use the throttle to stay on glideslope, not the elevator.
I find using the throttle results in more controllability.

Roy Smith wrote:

I s'pose. But you really shouldn't be playing with the throttle
constantly either. Somewhere along the line I picked up adding "DFWTP"
to my ILS checklist. DFWTP at GS intercept, GUMPS at DH. It stands for
"Don't F*** With The Power".

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

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