Why is a standard hold right turns?

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message =
...
Judah wrote in news:Xns951DD2EF8772AjudahNOSPAMMSG@
167.206.3.2:
=20
Do people in Europe fly from the right seat?
=20
They do if they fly helicopters, just as we do in the US. Flying from =
the=20
left seat has never made any sense at all to me. Most people are =
right-
handed, and flying from the left seat requires using your left hand, =
while=20
using the right to tune radios, etc. We fly helicopters from the =
right,=20
allowing the use of the right hand on the cyclic stick to keep =
upright, while=20
tuning, eating donuts, etc with the left. =20
=20
In reality, flying from the right puts the collective in the center, =
so you=20
don't have to climb over it to get in and out; plus, the very early =
models=20
had only one collective, and the left-seat pilot had to use the left =
hand on=20
the cyclic, and the right on the collective, and this isn't easy to =
get used=20
to. Most of these type things go back to historical trivia; it was =
done on=20
one model for whatever reason, and just became tradition.
=20
Regards,
=20
Stan

I thought some European helicopters turned their rotors oppositely,
and for a related reason flew from the left. Did I think wrong?
---JRC---

"John R. Copeland" wrote in
:

I thought some European helicopters turned their rotors oppositely,
and for a related reason flew from the left. Did I think wrong?
---JRC---

Yes, you did. The direction the rotors turn has nothing to do with where the
pilot sits. It does mean you have to use a different foot to counteract
torque, but that's instinctive, at least for most pilots, except for power
changes in cruise. There have been a few American (and European) helicopters
(The Hughes 500, for instance) in which the standard pilot's seat was on the
left, for some unknown reason. As for which direction the main rotor turns,
it was originally due to engineering reasons. The first Sikorsky models
turned either direction, depending on which required the least number of
gearboxes. Tradition took over eventually, and the French decided to be
different, just because they were French. The Russians did the same.
Everyone else has stayed with the clockwise direction as viewed from below.

What this has to do with IFR, I don't know. ;-) On topic, flying with the
right hand makes writing clearances, etc a little dodgy. I have to keep my
kneeboard on my left knee, because I use the right knee for my forearm.
Fortunately, my first officer can take the clearances for me, or vice versa.
Single-pilot, it can get tricky.

Stan Gosnell wrote:


They do if they fly helicopters, just as we do in the US. Flying from the
left seat has never made any sense at all to me. Most people are right-
handed, and flying from the left seat requires using your left hand, while
using the right to tune radios, etc. We fly helicopters from the right,
allowing the use of the right hand on the cyclic stick to keep upright, while
tuning, eating donuts, etc with the left.

In reality, flying from the right puts the collective in the center, so you
don't have to climb over it to get in and out; plus, the very early models
had only one collective, and the left-seat pilot had to use the left hand on
the cyclic, and the right on the collective, and this isn't easy to get used
to. Most of these type things go back to historical trivia; it was done on
one model for whatever reason, and just became tradition.

I heard once that the right-seat thing got started because some early model had
flame coming out the exhaust stack that was very distracting from the left seat
at night.

Probably a pure BS urban legend, though. ;-)

wrote in :

I heard once that the right-seat thing got started because some early
model had flame coming out the exhaust stack that was very distracting
from the left seat at night.

Probably a pure BS urban legend, though. ;-)

That's one I never heard.

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
... Flying from the
left seat has never made any sense at all to me. ...

Exactly. Boats have their helm on the right, so that helmspersons (choke)
can more easily observe the traffic in their "give-way" zone, the RIGHT.
Its the same rules for aircraft, but from the left seat you have a much more
restricted view of that side.

In article
e.rogers.com,
"Icebound" wrote:

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
... Flying from the
left seat has never made any sense at all to me. ...

Exactly. Boats have their helm on the right, so that helmspersons (choke)
can more easily observe the traffic in their "give-way" zone, the RIGHT.
Its the same rules for aircraft, but from the left seat you have a much more
restricted view of that side.

Some boats have their helm on the right. Generally small powerboats.
Larger boats tend to have them on the centerline.

Launches (the small powerboats that take people from a dock out to a
boat on a mooring) almost always have the helm on the left (port) side.
Why? Because they come up to the starboard side of the moored boat, and
it makes it easier for the launch driver to be on the port side, towards
the boat he's approaching. Why do they come up to the starboard side of
the moored boat? Well, I'm not sure, but the explanation I've heard is
that the head (i.e. toilet) discharge is usually on the port side, which
seems like a pretty good reason to me.

Boats often have multiple helm stations. Sometimes there's one up on
the flybridge for use in good weather, and another down below where you
can stay warm and dry. Workboats often have a secondary helm station
near the stern, so you can control the boat while back there pulling in
fishing nets or whatever.

Nobody ever mentioned a twin engine aircraft, so this is my guess. In a
twin, where both engines turn in the same direction, there is a slight
asymmetry to the thrust vector, I believe, slightly to the right side of the
airplane. If you were in a turn, at low speed, and you lost and engine, you
would rather be turning into the engine with the power than away from it.
But since you don't know which engine is going to fail, you would rather
turn into the thrust vector than away from it. That's my theory.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
It has always struck me odd that a standard landing pattern is left
turns and a standard hold is right turns. Having a left patterns for
landing makes a bit of sense, since the pilot is on the left side of the
cockpit and has a better view of the runway making left turns.

But, for IFR holds, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to one way or
the other. Why did they pick right turns to be standard?

VFR hold = left as pilot usually sits on left side and has better view
though
IFR hold = right 1) to better separate from VFR hold 2) no actual need to
look out, esp. in IMC

regards

Herbert
PPL ASEL
IFR student
ardent Cessna lover (172+182)

"Walter Ellison" wrote in message
link.net...
Nobody ever mentioned a twin engine aircraft, so this is my guess. In a
twin, where both engines turn in the same direction, there is a slight
asymmetry to the thrust vector, I believe, slightly to the right side of
the
airplane. If you were in a turn, at low speed, and you lost and engine,
you
would rather be turning into the engine with the power than away from it.
But since you don't know which engine is going to fail, you would rather
turn into the thrust vector than away from it. That's my theory.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
It has always struck me odd that a standard landing pattern is left
turns and a standard hold is right turns. Having a left patterns for
landing makes a bit of sense, since the pilot is on the left side of the
cockpit and has a better view of the runway making left turns.

But, for IFR holds, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to one way or
the other. Why did they pick right turns to be standard?

"Herbert Paulis" wrote in message
...

VFR hold = left as pilot usually sits on left side and has better view
though
IFR hold = right 1) to better separate from VFR hold 2) no actual need to
look out, esp. in IMC


Where did you find that information on VFR holding? How would opposite
directions aid in separating VFR from IFR aircraft?

In a twin the thrust line is slightly to the right when climbing, just like
a single, which makes the plane yaw left, just like in a single. The left
engine in a twin is the "important" engine. If you lose an engine, you
prefer it not to be the left one. Turning into the one good engine is about
the most difficult thing to do in a twin. If you lose the left engine, it
might take all of your right rudder just to keep it going straight. You
probably don't have enough to perform a right hand turn. It is probably
easier to do a 270 degree left turn than a 90 degree right turn. I don't
think the right hand turns associated with a hold have anything to do with a
twin.


"Walter Ellison" wrote in message
link.net...
Nobody ever mentioned a twin engine aircraft, so this is my guess. In a
twin, where both engines turn in the same direction, there is a slight
asymmetry to the thrust vector, I believe, slightly to the right side of
the
airplane. If you were in a turn, at low speed, and you lost and engine,
you
would rather be turning into the engine with the power than away from it.
But since you don't know which engine is going to fail, you would rather
turn into the thrust vector than away from it. That's my theory.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
It has always struck me odd that a standard landing pattern is left
turns and a standard hold is right turns. Having a left patterns for
landing makes a bit of sense, since the pilot is on the left side of the
cockpit and has a better view of the runway making left turns.

But, for IFR holds, there doesn't seem to be any advantage to one way or
the other. Why did they pick right turns to be standard?