chain of events

On Mar 9, 6:10 am, "Matt Barrow" wrote:


{Plonk} you and Reid for being pretentious assholes- Hide quoted text -

Matt Barrow, boy are you a dumbass if you think airliners are
actually flown this way.Not to mention a petty jerk off.Are you the
Matt Barrow who got himself fired from a certain commuter airline? It
wouldnt surprise me.
Matt, most people are gonna read this story and enjoy it for its
entertainment value and thats it.Why cant you appreciate that.I once
had an aviation instructor who said you should believe about half of
what you see and 10% of what you read (pertaining to aviation).This
was in the days before internet, so I would add that you should
believe 1% of the stuff you read on the internet.I saw right through
this story and got a good laugh out of it (I think thats what the
original poster wanted).How does this make me an asshole.Matt, you are
a bigger asshole if you think this story is true.

KM wrote:


I gotta second what Ried is saying here.How can the radios AND the
Localizer go out long enough for this to happen.The Civet is for 25L
not the right.
This sounds like a fish story to me.I think KiloMike is a troll and
should go away.
KU




I dont know about the approach itself, but the power issue is very
believable. If the main transformer for the whole place let go, its VERY
likely that it takes 10 or more seconds for the generator to get up and
running. Also, if I understand right, the generators dont serve the
entire airport, just select facilities and one or two main runways.

If such a big flash DID occur, then its likely that other cockpits would
have eyes fixated on it as well.

The only thing that doesn't make any sense.. is why would I only be
reading about it on usenet... and not CNN. A NMAC usually makes big news.

In article nk.net,
Dave S wrote:

I dont know about the approach itself, but the power issue is very
believable. If the main transformer for the whole place let go, its VERY
likely that it takes 10 or more seconds for the generator to get up and
running. Also, if I understand right, the generators dont serve the
entire airport, just select facilities and one or two main runways.

An approach system doesn't have a UPS?

--
Bob Noel
(gave up lookingn for a particular sig the lawyer will)

On Mar 9, 9:39 am, Dave S wrote:
KM wrote:


I dont know about the approach itself, but the power issue is very
believable. If the main transformer for the whole place let go, its VERY
likely that it takes 10 or more seconds for the generator to get up and
running. Also, if I understand right, the generators dont serve the
entire airport, just select facilities and one or two main runways.

Dave, you also have to understand that the ATC facilities are at two
separate locations.Try to imagine (even if it did take that long to
restore power) how long it would take to fly from north of the
approach to 24R, then though final, and then across the final for the
south complex (Not diagonally mind you, but on a typicle intercept
heading)? Also, the copilot would have seen the A340 first, not the
captain.If you tried to check in with the tower and got no response,
wouldnt you go back to approach?
The thing that really gives this story away is that there is no way in
hell that a crew would ignore an RA while on an approach to an airport
with similtaneous approaches to parallel runways. Two crews if you
count the A340 guys.

The only thing that doesn't make any sense.. is why would I only be
reading about it on usenet... and not CNN. A NMAC usually makes big news.
This is your next clue Dave.I went back and read some of "Capt Doug's"
posts and he does know a bit about airliners, but his posts show a
lack of understanding of enough of the detail to actually fly
one.Judging from his posts I would say he is probably a flight
attendant at NWA who flys on the side.And I would say he spends alot
of time talking to pilots about flying.

F. Reid writes:

Further more, are you gonna see a transformer go at 30 miles.

At least this part is certainly possible. If it's a large transformer with an
arcing failure and the weather is reasonably clear, you'll see it. It's
essentially a multimegawatt arc lamp, brighter than a lighthouse.

Do you really think the airport would
go dead (Like the scene in the movie Airplane when the guy in the
tower pulls the plug).

If it's a very large and important transformer, it might, until emergency
supplies could take over (but I would expect immediate transfer, not seconds
of delay).

An A340 doesnt even need ground based equipment to fly an approach.

How does it line up with the runway and land?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"KM" wrote:

Doug, come on dude.You posted some answers to a couple of technical
questions on Boeings that didnt make any sense.My guess is that you
hang out with pilots on layovers alot and pick their brains, and maybe
even read through some manuals.I get the same thing at my work, and
once I met a flight attendant who had 8000 hours.
Furthermore, this is the internet, and how many people here know you
personally?If you are who you say you are, I can respect that, but
just tell me where you are based and the initials of your chief pilot
and I will look it up and offer you an appology.
KM
PS how does an autopilot "mimic the ILS in smooth air"?????

I have not seen any useful information from you only sarcastic comments. Your posts are not even archived on google. Are you afraid of your own statements?

When did this happen?

Scary story.

mike

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
news
I went downstairs to the hotel restaurant and ran into a friend who
recounted a recent experience he had. He was inbound to LAX on the Civet
arrival to rwy 25R at night. His FO coupled the autopilot to the ILS about

On Mar 12, 4:57 am, "mike regish" wrote:
When did this happen?

April fools day.


Scary story.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
news
I went downstairs to the hotel restaurant and ran into a friend who
recounted a recent experience he had. He was inbound to LAX on the Civet
arrival to rwy 25R at night. His FO coupled the autopilot to the ILS about
30 miles out. Approach control pointed out traffic from the northeast that
was to join the ILS for the north side's parallel runway. Everything was
routine. They were told to switch over to the tower's frequency. Then they
saw a bright flash from an explosion on the north side of the terminal.
Both
of them thought there had been a crash.

From here everything happened rapidly. They were staring so hard out the
front that they didn't notice the parallel traffic went through the
northside localizer and was heading right at them. Then the TCAS went
crazy
telling them to pull up. Then the autopilot let out with it's loud series
of
chirps. Then the captain yelled at the FO to pull up because there was no
response to the TCAS. The FO yelled back that he thought the captain had
the
controls. The captain looked out his window to see an A-340 less than 200'
below them and it was racked up at big bank angle trying to get back on
final for the north runway. Then a frantic radio call came from ATC asking
if they were still there.

The subsequent investigation revealed an interesting chain of events. The
flash came from an exploding electrical transformer. The localizer,
glideslope, and ATC radios failed momentarily until back-up power came
online. When the localizer signal failed, the A-340's autopilot didn't
have
anything to intercept and stayed on the intercept angle, which is why it
went through the final approach into the south runway's final approach.
When
the localizer failed, my friend's autopilot didn't kick-off, but changed
from approach mode into heading and pitch mode which mimics the ILS in
smooth air. The FO heard the autopilot chirps along with the TCAS warnings
and figured the captain had assumed control from him. The captain heard
the
same noises but figured the FO had kicked off the AP to perform the TCAS
instructions.

It was close. Stay safe.

D.



A Chain indeed, and well met.

That is just EXACTLY how this stuff sneaks up on you. One minute you're
on top of it, the next you're asking What?, Huh?. In hindsight, everything
is clear, but at the moment it is "who's on first".

Al G