Tow cars and trailers

"flying_monkey" wrote in message
ps.com...
Jeep Liberty CRD
2.8L diesel. At 80 mph, I get 24 mpg running petroleum diesel; 22 mpg
running 100% biodiesel.
Not a bad compromise.

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message

Bill,

I'd agree, that sounds good. I looked into one of those a couple of
years ago, but ended up not doing anything about it. How do you like
the way it drives, and how big of a guy are you? How much diesel
noise do you have when driving it? I've owned several diesels, most
recently a 1982 MB 300SD. Shot it due to old age and too many things
broken, too bad, it was among the best cars I've ever driven. My
attraction to the Jeep is somewhat reduced by the experience I had
once with a rental Cherokee, maybe in about 1987. Biggest pos I ever
drove. Have they gotten it better in the Liberty? I know that the
engine will last forever, but will the car? What's the mpg with the
general mix of everyday city and country driving?

Thanks,
Ed


The Jeep Liberty post wasn't from me but I can add a comment. My '94 Jeep
Grand Cherokee Ltd. turned 250,000 miles a couple of months ago. The engine
and transmission have never been touched. All the body, electronics and
suspension systems still work perfectly. It doesn't even rattle. The
leather seats look new. It consumes 1 Qt of oil in 4000 miles. Although it
has required some maintenance, it's still the most reliable vehicle I've
ever owned.

In fact, there's a lot of electronic systems in the vehicle and none have
ever failed or required any maintenance. Where maintenance has been
required is in the mechanical systems. The bearings in the front and rear
axles just wore out at about 225K miles ($1200). I replaced the water pump
($45) once and the radiator ($100) three times. In-tank fuel pumps are a
real pain but I replaced that with a $100 aftermarket in-line pump that I
can change on the roadside with a screwdriver in 15 minutes.

Even with extremely capable 4WD and a 5.2L V8, I get 24 MPG (10L/100km) on
the highway. Add a heavy trailer and hot mountain roads and it drops to
19MPG.

With the optional diesel engine, the Liberty looks great. A local pilot
bought one to tow a ASK-21 trailer. I'm watching to see how it works out.

Bill Daniels

I like it a lot.
I'm 6', 180 lb--plenty of leftover headroom, hip room and shoulder room.
City mpg is 2-3 mpg lower.
I liked the Cherokee I had a few years back--put about 140k miles on that
one and sold it for a lot more than I expected to. Pretty happy w/Jeep
products.

"flying_monkey" wrote in message
ps.com...
Jeep Liberty CRD
2.8L diesel. At 80 mph, I get 24 mpg running petroleum diesel; 22 mpg
running 100% biodiesel.
Not a bad compromise.

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message

Bill,

I'd agree, that sounds good. I looked into one of those a couple of
years ago, but ended up not doing anything about it. How do you like
the way it drives, and how big of a guy are you? How much diesel
noise do you have when driving it? I've owned several diesels, most
recently a 1982 MB 300SD. Shot it due to old age and too many things
broken, too bad, it was among the best cars I've ever driven. My
attraction to the Jeep is somewhat reduced by the experience I had
once with a rental Cherokee, maybe in about 1987. Biggest pos I ever
drove. Have they gotten it better in the Liberty? I know that the
engine will last forever, but will the car? What's the mpg with the
general mix of everyday city and country driving?

Thanks,
Ed

On May 21, 10:55 am, "SAM 303a" brentDAHTsullivanATgmailDAHTcom
wrote:
Jeep Liberty CRD
2.8L diesel. At 80 mph, I get 24 mpg running petroleum diesel; 22 mpg
running 100% biodiesel.
Not a bad compromise.

Yes. The Liberty CRD is a *very* nice package.

Now the Grand Cherokee comes with a 3.0L V-6 turbodiesel. The engine
is a Mercedes. Check your local Jeep dealership as they should just
now be coming in. This should be an excellent package for those with
heavier gliders to tow.

Regards,

-Doug

It's ok, Ray; keep paying into that social security
fund -- I need the money!

At 13:30 21 May 2007, Ray Lovinggood wrote:
It's a Class I hitch, with the 1-1/4' bar.

Sad story here. I just had the hitch replaced. Another
'School of Hard Knocks' diploma for my wall. I need
a larger wall.

The first hitch just about tore off the bottom of my
trunk. The hitch bolted to the central rear tie down
loop and also through the 'Oh Too Thin' sheet metal
of the bottom of the trunk. I recently found the bottom
of the trunk severely cracked with the spare tire about
to fall out. I think the damage was not from towing,
but from the times I was jacking up the front of the
trailer to release it from the hitch, but the connection
not releasing. So, I was just jacking up the rear
of the car and the front of the trailer. To get it
to release, I had to step on the draw bar (glad my
shoe is small enough to fit) and put a bit of weight
on it. I've since found keeping the ball and hitch
wiped clean before connecting allows them to separate
easily. Putting oil on the ball works, too, but attracts
dirt and then leaves this big ol' greasy spot on my
shin.

The trunk got welded up and a new style hitch installed.
This new hitch attaches to the same central tow loop
but instead of going into the thin (very, very thin)
sheet metal of the bottom of the trunk, the two arms
reach more forward where they can bolt into the 'frame
rails'. Holes already exist in the frame rails, so
no drilling was required for this hitch.

A couple of months ago, I also had a transmission oil
cooler added.

Neither the hitch nor the tranny cooler are supplied
by Honda.

I just returned from a 900 mile round trip of towing
the trailer to Cordele, Georgia and back. I haven't
noted a problem with the new hitch.

The only problem I have now after a week of flying
is that I'm back into the drudgery of work :-(

Ray


At 15:36 19 May 2007, Tuno wrote:
Ray, did you have trouble getting a classs III hitch
on your Accord?
(I assume the dealer wouldn't touch this?)

I actually think that GM has a good idea in the 'Volt'.
It's an electric
car with a bay into which you (or GM) can install an
electricity source like
a genset (diesel or spark), a fuel cell stack or even
more batteries. The
flexibility is the value added.

Pure electric vehicles are slowly emerging as quite
possibly the final
answer. There has been rapid fire announcements of
lithium ion battery
technology advancements in the key areas of energy
density and charge time.
Toshiba and others have Lithium Polymer cells that
can be fully charged in
less than 5 minutes and still last 20,000 recharge
cycles. Charge time is
just as important as driving range with electrics with
one offsetting the
other. If the vehicle can be recharged in 5 minutes
at convienient
locations, who cares if it only goes 150 miles between
charges. For serious
'off grid' driving, the Volt approach looks good.

The so called 'hydrogen economy' is just bafflegab
from the Bush
administration to delay any action. Hydrogen is not
likely to be part of
the solution. An 'electric economy' however is easy
to imagine.
Electricity is extremely flexible. An electric vehicle
can be slowly
recharged overnight at home or quickly at a charging
station. The
electricity can come from almost any source.

My original thought is that even an electric could
tow a glider trailer if
the trailer itself supplied some of the power. Imagine
side boxes ahead and
behind each trailer wheel containing batteries and
wheels containing
electric motors. The trailer then powers itself and
the 'tow' vehicle just
guides it.

Bill Daniels



To add some hope to this situation, albeit down the
road, and some fuel to this debate, check out this
bit of emerging technology:

http://www.gizmag.com/go/5192/

It is a carbon nanotube capacitor, and the article
I linked does a much better and fuller job of explaining
it than I should here. If this technology is 'allowed'
to develop and be distributed, the future does not
look so bleak.
BTW, for those of you who don't already, spend some
time navigating around the parent site the article
is from, www.gizmag.com , with it's many sections (including
aero gizmo). There is a LOT of info there, with wonderful
(and of course some lame ones) new inventions and emerging
technology, updated often. It actually feels like it
is 2007, like the future IS here, when you check out
some of these things, instead of the year 'nineteen
ninety seventeen' we seem stuck in presently. This
site is everything Popular Science and Popular Mechanics
ever wished it could be.

Paul Hanson

"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi