Getting an IFR Clearance

"pgbnh" wrote in message
. ..
I suspect that you were either out of, or aboiut to be out of, his
airspace. Thus " I can not clear you ........" (until you fly northeast to
get back in my airspace). I would hope that a controller would have said
'unable - contact approach on xxx.yy for your clearance'.

Or perhaps you could have proposed to mcGuire that you continue VFR and
open with the next controller

Thought of that only after the fact.

Kobra

"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
I said to my passenger, "we're gonna take off VFR and fly the filed route
at 4,500 feet and then request opening the IFR flight plan in the air.
After I said this I thought to myself, I bet this move will tick-off the
controller and he'll end up giving me some random circuitous vectors just
to show me who's boss.

Sure enough as soon as I got leveled off on the first airway (V16) I
called approach and requested my IFR flight plan be activated. The
response was, "...I can't activate you're flight plan unless you fly 5
miles northeast..." Of course I was headed southwest. I turned around and
flew about 8 miles before I again asked for my plan to be opened. I was
told to standby and after another 2 minutes finally got my plan activated.

Now, my question is: If I wasn't in his airspace (which I think I was)
couldn't he have just told me to continue and contact Atlantic City
approach to open my plan? Do you think I was being "paid back" for
circumventing ATC's authority?

I sincerely doubt you were being "paid back" in any way. McGuire Approach
is a USAF facility and USAF facilities simply don't operate that way.

Hold you on the ground because their automation or other equipment isn't
operating at 100% or their internal SOP is so cumbersome that it takes that
long to coordinate a release or they can't get any cooperation from an
adjacent facility? Happens all the time.

Turn you back into their airspace so they can do the required IFR
coordination and complete a handoff before you enter the next controller's
airspace? And maybe even think they're doing you a favor by getting your
IFR clearance going now instead of leaving you VFR and passing the buck to
the next facility? A distinct possibility.

Take you on the scenic route because they couldn't think of a better more
expeditious way? Sure.

Vector you halfway over creation because their vectoring skills need work?
You bet.

But turn you around just to show you "who's the boss?" Not likely.

"KP" wrote in message
...
"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
I said to my passenger, "we're gonna take off VFR and fly the filed route
at 4,500 feet and then request opening the IFR flight plan in the air.
After I said this I thought to myself, I bet this move will tick-off the
controller and he'll end up giving me some random circuitous vectors just
to show me who's boss.

Sure enough as soon as I got leveled off on the first airway (V16) I
called approach and requested my IFR flight plan be activated. The
response was, "...I can't activate you're flight plan unless you fly 5
miles northeast..." Of course I was headed southwest. I turned around
and flew about 8 miles before I again asked for my plan to be opened. I
was told to standby and after another 2 minutes finally got my plan
activated.

Now, my question is: If I wasn't in his airspace (which I think I was)
couldn't he have just told me to continue and contact Atlantic City
approach to open my plan? Do you think I was being "paid back" for
circumventing ATC's authority?

I sincerely doubt you were being "paid back" in any way. McGuire Approach
is a USAF facility and USAF facilities simply don't operate that way.

I've worked in both USAF and FAA ATC facilities and there's really little
difference in that regard. All it takes is one who thinks he's God's gift
to aviation, and there's always more than one in every RAPCON or TRACON. I
would agree that the chances are quite slim and there's probably a much more
likely reason, but I can't agree that USAF facilities "simply don't operate
that way" because I've seen it happen. The military is no more immune from
abuse of authority than anyone else.

Often times when ATC isn't able to give you a release they will ask
you if you can depart VFR. Perhaps you should have called them back
and say that was your intention? My airport is just under the ILS for
a large cargo airport so its not unusual to have to wait some time
before getting a slot. However, ATC will always offer me that if I
depart VFR and fly 5 miles South they gave offer me the clearance in
the air. The only downside of this is that we don't have wx on my
field so I never know what the clouds heights are.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
Often times when ATC isn't able to give you a release they will ask
you if you can depart VFR. Perhaps you should have called them back
and say that was your intention? My airport is just under the ILS for
a large cargo airport so its not unusual to have to wait some time
before getting a slot. However, ATC will always offer me that if I
depart VFR and fly 5 miles South they gave offer me the clearance in
the air. The only downside of this is that we don't have wx on my
field so I never know what the clouds heights are.

-Robert


I know what you mean, I don't like to leave an airport when I'm "under the
weather" either.

--
Regards, Bob F.