SAFETY ALERT

OK Cookie, you don't like my Safety Alert idea. What actions would you
take to counter the recent rash of soaring accidents?
JJ

On Aug 22, 9:44*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
OK Cookie, you don't like my Safety Alert idea. What actions would you
take to counter the recent rash of soaring accidents?
JJ

Well I can't counter the recent rash of accidents because they have
already happened......unless I get a time machine.

But I can point out actions to prevent pilots form repeting those
errors. Most pilots are already doing preventitive measures, which is
simply a part of being a pilot and taking responsibility.

So lets take the recent incidents one by one, starting with the "low
pass" incident.

Solution: Don't do low passes!

JJ, that is the short answer and sums it up....and insures 100%
accident free due to low passes.....

If you don't understand this answer....I can give you the long version
if you wish. Or we can move on the another incident...

Cookie

On Aug 21, 11:04*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
I regularly get safety alerts (bulletins, notices) from the FAA and
AOPA, but I never get one from the SSA. I went digging to see if the
SSA had a similar program. I went to SSA home page, then to SSA
Partners..........Hmm, safety isn't a primary concern of the SSA and
is relegated to a soaring partner?
Then to Soaring Safety Foundation, then to Accident Prevention, then
to Advisory Notices and I actually found one! Yep on 5/23/05 the SSF
pumped out a Notice about props on solo engines.

We have just had 5 fatal accidents within the last 45 days and not a
peep out of the SSA or the 'partner' SSF.
I submit the following that might have been published (but wasn't):

1 July, 2011 * Glider crashes after initiating practice rope preak at
200 feet!
* * * * * * * * * * * 1 dead, 1 severly injured
SSA recommends practice rope breaks not be done below 500 feet and
only after thoroughly briefing before the flight. Briefing to include
altitude at which rope break will be initiated and pilots intended
actions.
All are reminded that a simple 180 degree turn will place the glider
parallel to, but not ovet the departure runway. Recommend a 90 / 270
when returning to departure runway (altitude permitting).

15 July, 2011 * *Glider spoilers open after takeoff, tow pilot gave
rudder-wag (check spoilers) which was misunderstood. Glider crashed
into trees.
* * * * * * * * * * * *1 dead, *1 seriously injured
This accident could have been prevented with a simple call from the
tow pilot to "close your spoilers", had radios been required by the
club or FBO.
SSA recommends all gliders and tow planes be equipped with radios and
a com-check be performed before all takeoffs. The com-check will
insure both radios are on, tuned to the same frequency, volume up,
squelch set and battery charged.

8 July, 2011 * * Off field landing accident (motor glider)
* * * * * * * * * * * *1 dead
SSA recommends that all gliders keep a suitable landing spot within
gliding distance at all times and engine starts not be attempted below
1500 agl.

JJ Sinclair
(for the SSA that could be)

CONCLUSIONS
Well, I hope those who have been following this thread have learned
some things, because this is the last you'll hear about it. In a
couple of months the SSF will warn about complacency and the need for
more training, then they will dutifully add 6 more to the 'fatal
accident' column and 8 to the 'destroyed' column and that will be the
end of it. One thing for sure there will be no mention of flying
without radios, 200 foot practice rope-breaks (aka practice bleeding)
or low passes. Its up to each one of us to decide what is in our best
interests. Tow pilots that goes for you also, there have been all too
many checks in the tow plane/pilot column recently. I have made it
crystal clear where I stand on these, where do you stand?
Cheers,
JJ

On Aug 23, 7:38*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:
On Aug 21, 11:04*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:





I regularly get safety alerts (bulletins, notices) from the FAA and
AOPA, but I never get one from the SSA. I went digging to see if the
SSA had a similar program. I went to SSA home page, then to SSA
Partners..........Hmm, safety isn't a primary concern of the SSA and
is relegated to a soaring partner?
Then to Soaring Safety Foundation, then to Accident Prevention, then
to Advisory Notices and I actually found one! Yep on 5/23/05 the SSF
pumped out a Notice about props on solo engines.

We have just had 5 fatal accidents within the last 45 days and not a
peep out of the SSA or the 'partner' SSF.
I submit the following that might have been published (but wasn't):

1 July, 2011 * Glider crashes after initiating practice rope preak at
200 feet!
* * * * * * * * * * * 1 dead, 1 severly injured
SSA recommends practice rope breaks not be done below 500 feet and
only after thoroughly briefing before the flight. Briefing to include
altitude at which rope break will be initiated and pilots intended
actions.
All are reminded that a simple 180 degree turn will place the glider
parallel to, but not ovet the departure runway. Recommend a 90 / 270
when returning to departure runway (altitude permitting).

15 July, 2011 * *Glider spoilers open after takeoff, tow pilot gave
rudder-wag (check spoilers) which was misunderstood. Glider crashed
into trees.
* * * * * * * * * * * *1 dead, *1 seriously injured
This accident could have been prevented with a simple call from the
tow pilot to "close your spoilers", had radios been required by the
club or FBO.
SSA recommends all gliders and tow planes be equipped with radios and
a com-check be performed before all takeoffs. The com-check will
insure both radios are on, tuned to the same frequency, volume up,
squelch set and battery charged.

8 July, 2011 * * Off field landing accident (motor glider)
* * * * * * * * * * * *1 dead
SSA recommends that all gliders keep a suitable landing spot within
gliding distance at all times and engine starts not be attempted below
1500 agl.

JJ Sinclair
(for the SSA that could be)

CONCLUSIONS
Well, I hope those who have been following this thread have learned
some things, because this is the last you'll hear about it. In a
couple of months the SSF will warn about complacency and the need for
more training, then they will dutifully add 6 more to the 'fatal
accident' column and 8 to the 'destroyed' column and that will be the
end of it. One thing for sure there will be no mention of flying
without radios, 200 foot practice rope-breaks (aka practice bleeding)
or low passes. Its up to each one of us to decide what is in our best
interests. Tow pilots that goes for you also, there have been all too
many checks in the tow plane/pilot column recently. *I have made it
crystal clear where I stand on these, where do you stand?
Cheers,
JJ- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My conclusions....

JJ recipe for safety:

Safety = 2 way radio + safety alert + drink of water = SAFE PILOT

Cookie recipe for safety:

Intelligence, knowledge, common sense, reason, problem solving,
judgment, planning working under pressure, training, practice,
proficiency, continued learning, learning from mistakes, learning from
other’s mistakes, taking advice, taking criticism, piloting skills,
coordination, using proven procedures, situational awareness, grasp of
reality, self reliance, self preservation, self control, self respect,
knowing one's limitations, flying within one's limitations, a
conservative approach to flying, ego in check.




Cookie

On 8/25/2011 8:17 AM, Cookie wrote:
My conclusions....

JJ recipe for safety:

Safety = 2 way radio + safety alert + drink of water = SAFE PILOT

Cookie recipe for safety:

Intelligence, knowledge, common sense, reason, problem solving,
judgment, planning working under pressure, training, practice,
proficiency, continued learning, learning from mistakes, learning from
other’s mistakes, taking advice, taking criticism, piloting skills,
coordination, using proven procedures, situational awareness, grasp of
reality, self reliance, self preservation, self control, self respect,
knowing one's limitations, flying within one's limitations, a
conservative approach to flying, ego in check.

Cookie


Cookie:
You appear to be out of line.
You need to get to know the posters, or, at least their past writings
and experiences.
Even if you disagree with them, study them and learn.
Your writings have given some of us the impression that your are a new
"hotshot" CFI with only the basics of experience and little real life
knowledge beyond studying.

Walk away from the computer keyboard, kick back, and take some of your
own advice:
continued learning, learning from mistakes, learning from
other’s mistakes, taking advice, taking criticism,

Go fly, teach, learn how to become a CFI, apply the rest of the values
you outline and actually learn how to approach the subject of
instruction, safety, and aviation.
In the mean time, educate yourself, with good and bad information from
the experience of those that have actually done what you are now trying
to experience.

Cookie recipe for safety:

learning from
other’s mistakes,

That's what this whole discussion has been about, but you still don't
get it. I am suggesting ways to prevent making the same mistake that
these 6 dead pilots made.

You don't seem to believe that dehydration can cause an accident, let
me tell you about some cases where you can "learn from other's
mistakes".

Cal City Regionals, pilot flying an Open Cirrus approached the finish
line at 50 feet and about 50 knots, all thought he would just land
straight ahead, but just after he crossed the line, he pulled up,
stalled and killed himself right in front of the finish gate. The only
plausible explanation is he must have slowely bled off his airspeed,
but didn't realize it and thought he was going 150, not 50. No water
bottle was found in the wreckage. Dehydration can do that kind of
thing to the mind.

Another pilot flying a Ventus B was seen about 5pm, circling so low
that he was casting a shadow and then crashed, still circling! Pilot
doesn't remember anything after breakfast that day. Dehydration can do
that kind of thing to the mind.

Another instructor pilot with thousands of hours in gliders stalled
his 1-26 turning final to an off-field landing about 4pm. He hadn't
had a dring of water all day! Dehydration can do that kind of thing to
the mind.

Food (water) for thought,
JJ

On 8/25/2011 7:54 AM, JJ Sinclair wrote:

Snip...
Cal City Regionals, pilot flying an Open Cirrus approached the finish
line at 50 feet and about 50 knots, all thought he would just land
straight ahead, but just after he crossed the line, he pulled up,
stalled and killed himself right in front of the finish gate. The only
plausible explanation is he must have slowly bled off his airspeed,
but didn't realize it and thought he was going 150, not 50. No water
bottle was found in the wreckage. Dehydration can do that kind of
thing to the mind.

Another pilot flying a Ventus B was seen about 5pm, circling so low
that he was casting a shadow and then crashed, still circling! Pilot
doesn't remember anything after breakfast that day. Dehydration can do
that kind of thing to the mind.

Another instructor pilot with thousands of hours in gliders stalled
his 1-26 turning final to an off-field landing about 4pm. He hadn't
had a drink of water all day! Dehydration can do that kind of thing to
the mind.

Food (water) for thought,
JJ

It was probably from "Soaring" magazine I began to learn of the
'easy-to-achieve' reality/subtle hazards of dehydration. And I don't know if
JJ's ending example above is of Paul Schweizer's accident in a Texas-based
1-26 'Nationals,' but it sure could be; definitely recommended reading from
the archives. If it happens, it must be possible, and Paul concluded
dehydration was a (the main?) contributor. This in *east* Texas.

After moving to Colorado's Front Range (~13" annual moisture; daytime humidity
not uncommonly in the low teens), I quickly got in the habit of ensuring
(after a breakfast with no diuretics [Kids, can you spell 'caffeine'?] and at
least 16 oz. of fluids) I drank another 24 oz. of cold water (draining a
thermos) before/during/after the (early as possible) rigging process. After
that, I've always PIC-ed with an additional gallon of water. Never guzzled it
all in flight, but more than once have drunk over 75% of it prior to landing.

I recall once forgetting the thermos, rigging, a longish wait for tow,
thrashing around down low for what mentally seemed a *long* time, and finally
opting for a sip from one of my canteens, long before I was able to climb into
air-conditioned comfort. The (not quite scaldingly hot, sun-baked) water
tasted so good, I polished that canteen's 2 quarts off, then and there. One
conclusion: if hot water tastes and feels GOOD, you're majorly dehydrated!

At a Salida (CO) camp involving some longish pushing of gliders, and *after*
employing the ground-thermos strategy, I could feel myself getting
cotton-mouthed come tow time. After about half an hour (on a good day, too;
grnxx!), I voluntarily terminated the flight because I could tell my
thermaling skills simply weren't there. Nor was my brain. Worrisome, scary,
irritating, not fun, easier to achieve than to remedy.

After that, if I can easily sense dehydration pre-tow, I simply don't tow. I'd
rather that decision be a no-brainer, than my flying.

If I'm honest with myself, a good case of dehydration (easy to achieve out
west) has for 25+ years taken me at least 24 hours from which to recover; 48
hours is better.

Dehydration - bad juju (and, not at all uncommon out here, IMO).

Bob W.

JJ and Bob, thank you for bringing up this subject. As you have stated,
dehydration is a real concern for those of us who live in fly here in the
Mountain West.

Before Cookie gets on my case I'll say that from my understanding the
"cause" of the recent Idaho accident was "poor pilot judgment." However,
dehydration could definitely have been a "contributing factor."

I helped assemble the BG-12B involved in the accident. I know it had a
Mountain High electronic O2 system, so I'm assuming it was being used. I
also know that the bird was not equipped with a pilot relief system. I
discussed installation options with the pilot.

I don't know if, or how much drinking water he had onboard. I don't know if
he was adequately hydrated prior to entering the cockpit. (He normally
elected to launch at the end of the launch cycle so he could have easily
been behind the hydration cycle prior to takeoff.)

For those not familiar with the part of the state of Idaho where the
accident occurred, it has an annual rain fall of only 10.25 inches a year.
The field is located 5,500 MSL and the temperature that day was in the low
90s.

Dehydration IS a big deal and as stated in both JJ's and Bob's posts, its'
effects should NOT be taken lightly.

There are many things that we don't really know about this accident;
however, I know that we lost a relatively young commercial glider pilot that
was excited about owning and flying his own sailplane.

My thoughts and prayers are for his sister who is retrieving his pickup and
personal belonging today.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/


"BobW" wrote in message ...

On 8/25/2011 7:54 AM, JJ Sinclair wrote:

Snip...
Cal City Regionals, pilot flying an Open Cirrus approached the finish
line at 50 feet and about 50 knots, all thought he would just land
straight ahead, but just after he crossed the line, he pulled up,
stalled and killed himself right in front of the finish gate. The only
plausible explanation is he must have slowly bled off his airspeed,
but didn't realize it and thought he was going 150, not 50. No water
bottle was found in the wreckage. Dehydration can do that kind of
thing to the mind.

Another pilot flying a Ventus B was seen about 5pm, circling so low
that he was casting a shadow and then crashed, still circling! Pilot
doesn't remember anything after breakfast that day. Dehydration can do
that kind of thing to the mind.

Another instructor pilot with thousands of hours in gliders stalled
his 1-26 turning final to an off-field landing about 4pm. He hadn't
had a drink of water all day! Dehydration can do that kind of thing to
the mind.

Food (water) for thought,
JJ

It was probably from "Soaring" magazine I began to learn of the
'easy-to-achieve' reality/subtle hazards of dehydration. And I don't know if
JJ's ending example above is of Paul Schweizer's accident in a Texas-based
1-26 'Nationals,' but it sure could be; definitely recommended reading from
the archives. If it happens, it must be possible, and Paul concluded
dehydration was a (the main?) contributor. This in *east* Texas.

After moving to Colorado's Front Range (~13" annual moisture; daytime
humidity
not uncommonly in the low teens), I quickly got in the habit of ensuring
(after a breakfast with no diuretics [Kids, can you spell 'caffeine'?] and
at
least 16 oz. of fluids) I drank another 24 oz. of cold water (draining a
thermos) before/during/after the (early as possible) rigging process. After
that, I've always PIC-ed with an additional gallon of water. Never guzzled
it
all in flight, but more than once have drunk over 75% of it prior to
landing.

I recall once forgetting the thermos, rigging, a longish wait for tow,
thrashing around down low for what mentally seemed a *long* time, and
finally
opting for a sip from one of my canteens, long before I was able to climb
into
air-conditioned comfort. The (not quite scaldingly hot, sun-baked) water
tasted so good, I polished that canteen's 2 quarts off, then and there. One
conclusion: if hot water tastes and feels GOOD, you're majorly dehydrated!

At a Salida (CO) camp involving some longish pushing of gliders, and *after*
employing the ground-thermos strategy, I could feel myself getting
cotton-mouthed come tow time. After about half an hour (on a good day, too;
grnxx!), I voluntarily terminated the flight because I could tell my
thermaling skills simply weren't there. Nor was my brain. Worrisome, scary,
irritating, not fun, easier to achieve than to remedy.

After that, if I can easily sense dehydration pre-tow, I simply don't tow.
I'd
rather that decision be a no-brainer, than my flying.

If I'm honest with myself, a good case of dehydration (easy to achieve out
west) has for 25+ years taken me at least 24 hours from which to recover; 48
hours is better.

Dehydration - bad juju (and, not at all uncommon out here, IMO).

Bob W.

hazards of dehydration. And I don't know if
JJ's ending example above is of Paul Schweizer's accident in a Texas-based
1-26 'Nationals,'

No, this one was at our annual Air Sailing Sports Contest. I was the
CD that year and I caught the pilot climbing in his 1-26 without a
parachute. I told him he would have to wear a chute in a sanctioned
contest and he reluctantly went and got one. After the accident he was
alone in the desert with badly broken legs and ankles and started
going into shock. He pooped the parachute I made him wear and wrapped
it around himself. That might have saved his life, because it was
quite some time before he was found by a car that was driving on a
seldom used dirt road in the desert (White Rock Road). We launched Air
Sailing Air (tow plane) about 6:PM, with no results, but Vern was
already in the hospital at that time.
Drink will help you Think,
JJ

JJ recipe for safety:

Safety *= 2 way radio + safety alert + drink of water = SAFE PILOT

Cookie recipe for safety:

Intelligence, knowledge, common sense, reason, problem solving,
judgment, planning working under pressure, training, practice,
proficiency, continued learning, learning from mistakes, learning from
other’s mistakes, taking advice, taking criticism, piloting skills,
coordination, using proven procedures, situational awareness, grasp of
reality, self reliance, self preservation, self control, self respect,
knowing one's limitations, flying within one's limitations, a
conservative approach to flying, ego in check.

Cookie- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, Cookie, you are so full of yourself it boggles the imagination.

JJ (and just about everybody else who has been on this thread) has
contributed rational comments.

You, on the other hand, dismiss proven safety issues (dehydration not
a possible factor? really? ever fly out west by any chance?
unbelievable!).

You also dismiss the proven benefit of technology (radios, stall
warning, FLARM, etc), applied intelligently, with a casual "oh just
pay attention and fly better blah blah blah" approach. What are you, a
card carrying Luddite?

And you are a CFI. And presumably this is what you teach your
students!

Doesn't say much for our method of making instructors.

And I pity your students, they will have a lot to learn after you are
done with them!

Kirk
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