Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.

Subject: Bush flew fighter jets, but never over VIETNAM.
From: "ian maclure"
Date: 7/19/2004 10:20 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:19:17 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

[snip]

Maybe he did, but no one has shown any reasonable proof of it.

Please to define "reasonable proof" in an unambigouous
way. It would help if the kind of proof you want was the
kind that ought ( in a standard procedural sense ) to exist.

IBM


The word"reasonable" is in itself ambigious


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

The point is that someone said that Bush volunteered for Viet Nam,
but there is
a document extant that shows he -did-not- volunteer for overseas
assignment at
one point.


Why is that a point worth debating?

It seems to be a false statement.

The part about not volunteering certainly is.

Bush apparently did not volunteer for Viet Nam. Someone here said he did.

You seem to think that he was under some obligation to transfer
to the regular Air Force ASAP. No such obligation existed.


Not at all. And joining the Air Guard and flying F-102's would have been a
perfectly acceptable way to serve.

The problem with Bush's service is that there is strong circumstantial evidence
that he didn't participate for the last two years of his service.

I got an e-mail from the guy doing the research on Awolbush.com.

I was wrong about the one document that shows no entry between 26 May '72 and 1
Oct 73. Although it looks identical to documents in the Marine Corps, it did
not serve the same function. It's an AF form 11. Reserve points were not
shown. Further, that form was no longer used after 1 May, 73.

The new link on www.awolbush.com has strong circumstantial evidence that Bush
actually -was- declared a deserter and that the documentation that should have
followed from that has been destroyed, as has been the paperwork on the
mandatory inquiry on Bush's grounding.

Surely some of the former Air Force pilots who post here are wondering about
this.

What little I know indcates that most pilots will do about anything to keep
flying and stay current in their aircraft. This didn't seem to be a factor for
Bush.

When you think that Bush is an untreated alcohlic even now, it's not much of a
stretch to think he found cocaine more alluring that flying back in 1972.

Walt

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:30:04 +0000, WalterM140 wrote:

[snip]

Not at all. And joining the Air Guard and flying F-102's would have been a
perfectly acceptable way to serve.

Which is what happened.

The problem with Bush's service is that there is strong circumstantial evidence
that he didn't participate for the last two years of his service.

Look we've told you before. Some whacko channeling Ho Chi Minh is not a
relaible source.

I got an e-mail from the guy doing the research on Awolbush.com.

Now there's an unbiased source.

I was wrong about the one document that shows no entry between 26 May '72 and 1
Oct 73. Although it looks identical to documents in the Marine Corps, it did
not serve the same function. It's an AF form 11. Reserve points were not
shown. Further, that form was no longer used after 1 May, 73.

Earth to Walt, D'uh!

The new link on www.awolbush.com has strong circumstantial evidence that Bush
actually -was- declared a deserter and that the documentation that should have

Gee, what a surprise. I guess you have to come up with new garbage
since the previous stuff is well past its use by date.

followed from that has been destroyed, as has been the paperwork on the
mandatory inquiry on Bush's grounding.

Oh really. Proof that this fictitious deocumentation of a fictitious
requirement actually existed?

Surely some of the former Air Force pilots who post here are wondering about
this.

Guys?

What little I know indcates that most pilots will do about anything to keep
flying and stay current in their aircraft. This didn't seem to be a factor for
Bush.

Depends. I have an elderly relative who was a C-54 driver in WWII.
Flew all over the Pacific including into disputed airstrips. Lost
a copilot to a Japanese fighter attack ( one of two he endured )
and had 20 feet or so of the top of his airplane blown off by
artillery while on the ground. When, he stepped off the airplane
for the last time in 1947 ( he was pilot for the US UN delegation
post war ) he never again flew under his own steam. I expect he
wasn't the only one who did this.

When you think that Bush is an untreated alcohlic even now, it's not much of a
stretch to think he found cocaine more alluring that flying back in 1972.

Now why would I think that?
Are you projecting?

IBM

Walt


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What little I know indcates that most pilots will do about anything to keep
flying and stay current in their aircraft.

The key word is *most*. There are pilots, and their actions I'll admit confound
me, that just want to be pilots because the Chief of Staff has always been a
pilot. I know several guys who got to a staff job as quick as they could and
only plan on returning to fly long enough to punch the squadron commander
ticket and then head back to staff. They're goals and desires are the exact
opposite of mine, but their service to this country is no less honarable than
anyone else.

This didn't seem to be a factor for
Bush.

Perhaps he wasn't interested in becoming an airline pilot or logging 5,000
hours. Unless your goal is one of those two, why would you attempt to keep
flying?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

(BUFDRVR) wrote:

Perhaps he wasn't interested in becoming an airline pilot or logging 5,000
hours. Unless your goal is one of those two, why would you attempt to keep
flying?

Answer: A pilot bud whom happens to be quite a bit older than me
used to fly the F-4S off carriers and now flies 767's for Delta says
that he can't wait to go off duty so that he can fly the light stuff
(he has a hangar chock full of cool light sport aircraft, including a
trike, or "kite").

He's still a bachelor, but hasn't slept with a nice looking stew since
the '80's. And since 9/11, he said that things just went from bad to
horrible. He still earns over $4000 per month, however, he may be
forced to retire early lest he lose 80-percent of his retirement
pension.

"Mike Marron" wrote

Answer: A pilot bud whom happens to be quite a bit older than me
used to fly the F-4S off carriers and now flies 767's for Delta says
that he can't wait to go off duty so that he can fly the light stuff
(he has a hangar chock full of cool light sport aircraft, including a
trike, or "kite").

A pilot bud of mine just retired, but when he got done with his rotation,
he spent all of his time working on his hot rods, and his rental properties
in several states. The only reason he kept flying was to retire, but he
said his last four years have been very hard, because he really can't
stand modern transports, as they put him to sleep. He didn't like a lot
of his crew mates, because they always smelled of alcohol, or had no
interest in flying except the high pay and the trophy-wife upkeep.

I asked him if he would ever try to land with a thunderstorm over the
runway like the American pilots in Little Rock, and he said he would
never have left Dallas, but 90% of his crew mates would probably
make the run, as they had no regard for the SLUG's in back (Self-
Loading Undesirable Goats).

He said that his USAF flying was very exciting, but civilian transports
was pretty much the pits. The difference is the military guys have a
mission outside of just flying. Moving aircraft to a battle, is much more
intense than moving aircraft to another hub. Plus there was additional
duties that were just as challenging, and the respect one had from the
troops. In the airline business, you're just another union ******* who
keeps the mob fresh in cash.

Mike Marron wrote:

Answer: A pilot bud whom happens to be quite a bit older than me
used to fly the F-4S off carriers and now flies 767's for Delta....

[....]

...still earns over $4000 per month....

That would be per _week_, MM.



Jack

Jack wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Answer: A pilot bud whom happens to be quite a bit older than me
used to fly the F-4S off carriers and now flies 767's for Delta....

...still earns over $4000 per month....

That would be per _week_, MM.

Nope, according to him it's only 4K per mo. But that's by choice since
it seems he's almost always off-duty playing with his toys and doing
other stuff. Don't get me wrong, he once showed me an offer in writing
that a real estate agent gave for one of his properties in Southern
California. No doubt the guy is a millionaire, but he deeply hates
his job as would I if I flew for the airlines in this day and age.
Moolah's nice, but it ain't everything.