Alodyning skins and large sheets

In article ,
Ed Wischmeyer wrote:

Folks, the question is not about alternatives to alodyne, or about
primers -- it is how to alodyne large sheets without having huge
quantities of chemical!!

Unfortunately, IMHO, there is no alternative. As you know, Ed, I had an
alodyne tank setup in CA, which I made up, using a lye solution for etch
and a companion tank for the alodyne.

I got the lye from the supermarket and the alodyne powder from a plater.
For best reaults, the lye should be at 120 dg f. Etch for 5 minutes,
wash, alodyne for 10 min., wash.

"Ed Wischmeyer" wrote in message
...
Folks, the question is not about alternatives to alodyne, or about
primers -- it is how to alodyne large sheets without having huge
quantities of chemical!!

Ed Wischmeyer

Use a brush and brush it on warm. Say 80-90 degrees F. Use Iridite.
It's cheaper.

Anybody have any favorite techniques for doing big pieces? I've not been
able to find any alodyne tanks locally, and I've only got a gallon each
of aluminum cleaner (phosphoric acid) and alodyne. The option is to

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ed,

I think it will take about two gallos of each.

The process involves plastic or epoxy-coated rain guttering as a lower trough,
a series of spray nozzles & black plastic tubing along the upper edge, a
submersible pump, two or three A-frames to support the rain gutter and some
5-mil plastic sheet. The rear plastic panel is fixed in place, the front part
is suspended like a curtain, hangs into the rain gutter.

You do one side at a time.

Lift/raise the curtain, put the panel or sheet into the trough, lower the
curtain & tuck it in then turn on the pump.

Depending on temperature and the flow-rate of the pump (and output of the
nozzles... measure the 'out-fall' where the rain gutter delivers the solution
back to the sump), average time per side was about 4 minutes.

Water-rinse is done with a HOSE. Just get the plastic out of there, divert the
out-fall and walk down the length of the panel, blasting away.

----------------------------------------------------

It isn't very hi-tek and if doing 4x12's it helps if you make up some handling
frames -- things with those vacuum cups for working with glass -- that will
allow you to position & flip a panel without chopping off your foot.

The idea is to protect the metal quickly and at least cost, usually because it
will have to go into outside storage. This method is sorta gross but it works.

You can salvage the spray heads & tubing if you wish, use it in your garden.
The pump is usually trashed after pumping phosphoric for a couple of hours (but
maybe not... had a little all-plastic thingee that didn't seem to mind the
chemicals at all).

This isn't a new idea, other than the addition of the pump & sprayers. They
used to use a rack like this at NAS North Island, couple of guys, all suited up
in rubber boots & aprons, scrubbing down panels with big fuzzy brushes. The
gutter was a piece of black sewer pipe cut in half, sloped so they could
recover/reuse most of their solution. Seemed like a good idea.

-R.S.Hoover

Might use a pump up type garden sprayer. All you want to do is keep it wet
for several minutes.

"Veeduber" wrote in message
...

Anybody have any favorite techniques for doing big pieces? I've not been
able to find any alodyne tanks locally, and I've only got a gallon each
of aluminum cleaner (phosphoric acid) and alodyne. The option is to

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ed,

I think it will take about two gallos of each.

The process involves plastic or epoxy-coated rain guttering as a lower
trough,
a series of spray nozzles & black plastic tubing along the upper edge, a
submersible pump, two or three A-frames to support the rain gutter and
some
5-mil plastic sheet. The rear plastic panel is fixed in place, the front
part
is suspended like a curtain, hangs into the rain gutter.

You do one side at a time.

Lift/raise the curtain, put the panel or sheet into the trough, lower the
curtain & tuck it in then turn on the pump.

Depending on temperature and the flow-rate of the pump (and output of the
nozzles... measure the 'out-fall' where the rain gutter delivers the
solution
back to the sump), average time per side was about 4 minutes.

Water-rinse is done with a HOSE. Just get the plastic out of there,
divert the
out-fall and walk down the length of the panel, blasting away.

----------------------------------------------------

It isn't very hi-tek and if doing 4x12's it helps if you make up some
handling
frames -- things with those vacuum cups for working with glass -- that
will
allow you to position & flip a panel without chopping off your foot.

The idea is to protect the metal quickly and at least cost, usually
because it
will have to go into outside storage. This method is sorta gross but it
works.

You can salvage the spray heads & tubing if you wish, use it in your
garden.
The pump is usually trashed after pumping phosphoric for a couple of hours
(but
maybe not... had a little all-plastic thingee that didn't seem to mind the
chemicals at all).

This isn't a new idea, other than the addition of the pump & sprayers.
They
used to use a rack like this at NAS North Island, couple of guys, all
suited up
in rubber boots & aprons, scrubbing down panels with big fuzzy brushes.
The
gutter was a piece of black sewer pipe cut in half, sloped so they could
recover/reuse most of their solution. Seemed like a good idea.

-R.S.Hoover

Might use a pump up type sprayer. All you want to do is keep the surface wet
with Alodine for 5 to 10 minutes. You could even have it horizontal and do
one side at a time.

"Veeduber" wrote in message
...

Anybody have any favorite techniques for doing big pieces? I've not been
able to find any alodyne tanks locally, and I've only got a gallon each
of aluminum cleaner (phosphoric acid) and alodyne. The option is to

----------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ed,

I think it will take about two gallos of each.

The process involves plastic or epoxy-coated rain guttering as a lower
trough,
a series of spray nozzles & black plastic tubing along the upper edge, a
submersible pump, two or three A-frames to support the rain gutter and
some
5-mil plastic sheet. The rear plastic panel is fixed in place, the front
part
is suspended like a curtain, hangs into the rain gutter.

You do one side at a time.

Lift/raise the curtain, put the panel or sheet into the trough, lower the
curtain & tuck it in then turn on the pump.

Depending on temperature and the flow-rate of the pump (and output of the
nozzles... measure the 'out-fall' where the rain gutter delivers the
solution
back to the sump), average time per side was about 4 minutes.

Water-rinse is done with a HOSE. Just get the plastic out of there,
divert the
out-fall and walk down the length of the panel, blasting away.

----------------------------------------------------

It isn't very hi-tek and if doing 4x12's it helps if you make up some
handling
frames -- things with those vacuum cups for working with glass -- that
will
allow you to position & flip a panel without chopping off your foot.

The idea is to protect the metal quickly and at least cost, usually
because it
will have to go into outside storage. This method is sorta gross but it
works.

You can salvage the spray heads & tubing if you wish, use it in your
garden.
The pump is usually trashed after pumping phosphoric for a couple of hours
(but
maybe not... had a little all-plastic thingee that didn't seem to mind the
chemicals at all).

This isn't a new idea, other than the addition of the pump & sprayers.
They
used to use a rack like this at NAS North Island, couple of guys, all
suited up
in rubber boots & aprons, scrubbing down panels with big fuzzy brushes.
The
gutter was a piece of black sewer pipe cut in half, sloped so they could
recover/reuse most of their solution. Seemed like a good idea.

-R.S.Hoover

Might use a pump up type sprayer. All you want to do is keep the surface wet
with Alodine for 5 to 10 minutes. You could even have it horizontal and do
one side at a time.

The process involves plastic or epoxy-coated rain guttering as a lower
trough,
a series of spray nozzles & black plastic tubing along the upper edge, a
submersible pump, two or three A-frames to support the rain gutter and

thank to both!

Ed

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:32:55 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:

In article ,
Ed Wischmeyer wrote:

Folks, the question is not about alternatives to alodyne, or about
primers -- it is how to alodyne large sheets without having huge
quantities of chemical!!

Unfortunately, IMHO, there is no alternative. As you know, Ed, I had an
alodyne tank setup in CA, which I made up, using a lye solution for etch
and a companion tank for the alodyne.

I got the lye from the supermarket and the alodyne powder from a plater.
For best reaults, the lye should be at 120 dg f. Etch for 5 minutes,
wash, alodyne for 10 min., wash.

Using lye ( sodium hydroxide ) for an etch is a disasterous choice.
The treatment you describe will more than remove all of the alclad
from the sheet and leave you worse off than when you started.

O-ring

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 20:17:56 GMT,
(O-ring Seals) wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 01:32:55 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote:

In article ,
Ed Wischmeyer wrote:

Folks, the question is not about alternatives to alodyne, or about
primers -- it is how to alodyne large sheets without having huge
quantities of chemical!!

Unfortunately, IMHO, there is no alternative. As you know, Ed, I had an
alodyne tank setup in CA, which I made up, using a lye solution for etch
and a companion tank for the alodyne.

I got the lye from the supermarket and the alodyne powder from a plater.
For best reaults, the lye should be at 120 dg f. Etch for 5 minutes,
wash, alodyne for 10 min., wash.

Using lye ( sodium hydroxide ) for an etch is a disasterous choice.
The treatment you describe will more than remove all of the alclad
from the sheet and leave you worse off than when you started.

O-ring

I'm reminded of the time a student in an automotive class
put his engine block in the caustic solution over the
weekend. It works great on a cast iron block. Removes all
the crud, paint, etc.

However, on Monday, when he opened the tank to remove his
block, all he found was a few bits and pieces plus the
cylinder liners.

Caustic solutions and aluminum are NOT a good mix. Even an
aluminum engine block can be "eaten away". Think what it
will do to a thin aluminum skin...

John

Using lye ( sodium hydroxide ) for an etch is a disasterous choice.

---------------------------------------------

Not necessarily.

Not all aluminum is Alclad and sodium hydroxide has long been a standard for
surface preparation for aluminum. But as with heat treatment or re-forming, it
isn't an amateur sport :-)

-R.S.Hoover

On 02 Feb 2004 01:12:03 GMT, (Veeduber) wrote:


Using lye ( sodium hydroxide ) for an etch is a disasterous choice.

---------------------------------------------

Not necessarily.

Not all aluminum is Alclad and sodium hydroxide has long been a standard for
surface preparation for aluminum. But as with heat treatment or re-forming, it
isn't an amateur sport :-)

-R.S.Hoover

Veedubber,

As a high school student, I filled baloons with hydrogen gas by
cutting up TV Dinner trays and dumping them into lye water and piping
the gas into the baloons. The aluminum metal definitely goes away. I
stand by my statement, and Alclad was not the point.

Bob Seals
M.S. Chemistry