Looking for pictures of motorglider failures

Failed pilots? Dave, you don’t want me to send you my photo?

I remember an engine that would not extend caused by a spark plug wire stuck to the muffler! Apparently the engine had been retracted without a sufficient cooling period and spark plug wire came to rest on the muffler and melted the insulation that turned to glue when it cooled down! Oddball malfunction for sure. Also heard rumors about pilots forgetting to add oil to the fuel in 2 stroke engines and another guy that accidentally added oil twice to the same batch of fuel. Then there was the pilot that leaned out his engine for peak power and melted a cylinder on takeoff. Seems to me that electric motors are the best way forward, but self launching with a motor in the nose gives very little prop clearance. The JETA looks promising.
JJ

wrote on 12/8/2019 9:47 AM:
I remember an engine that would not extend caused by a spark plug wire stuck to the muffler! Apparently the engine had been retracted without a sufficient cooling period and spark plug wire came to rest on the muffler and melted the insulation that turned to glue when it cooled down! Oddball malfunction for sure. Also heard rumors about pilots forgetting to add oil to the fuel in 2 stroke engines and another guy that accidentally added oil twice to the same batch of fuel. Then there was the pilot that leaned out his engine for peak power and melted a cylinder on takeoff. Seems to me that electric motors are the best way forward, but self launching with a motor in the nose gives very little prop clearance. The JETA looks promising.

The 15M GP15 Jeta does look good; the 13.5 M category has the GP14, Silent
Electro (an FES) and miniLAK-FES, all appearing capable of good XC flying; and if
you gotta have 18M, the new AS34 has deliveries available for next spring,
according to the Schleicher dealer. The GP and AS gliders are "motor on a stick",
so no problems with prop clearance.

None of these has the powered range of a gasoline powered self-launcher, but 25
years of flying my ASH26E tells me the 100km powered range most have is enough for
all but a small percentage of my self-retrieves, and the 100km range would greatly
shorten the retrieve by trailer or aerotow.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Not part of the accident report, but here are some additional photos of the hub failure accident mentioned. Kudos to the BGA and their mag for better coverage of such events and remedies. I believe this is the same one regarding the G-SAXT Duo?

http://glidingtauranga.co.nz/wordpre...-Engine-DI.pdf

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description..
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df

If this talk is to be about safety issues, it shouldn't be concerned with maintenance issues. Safety issues are things that affect the outcome of a flight - if a maintenance issue occurs that prevents the flight from occurring, there is no safety issue.

An in-flight fire is definitely a safety issue; a dead battery that keeps you from starting your engine is not. I have experienced both; examples include:

Maintenance:
Hydrolocking due to unknown contamination in the fuel system.
Flywheel screws that jam engine operation because of insufficient locking adhesive.
Drive belt that fails during engine starting.
Engine controller failure due to unknown causes.

Flight safety:
Mast mounting bolt failure due to unknown causes resulting in loss of all power (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing).
Fuel system fire due to unknown causes (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing).
Decompression valve plug working out due to missing washer (propulsion failure followed by uneventful landing).

The truth is that very few true flight safety issues have occurred, perhaps on a par with towplane engine failures. The more likely issue is engine failure to start with a bad outlanding outcome. And, I suspect these are dwarfed by all of the fatal stall/spins trying to do a low save (one occurred recently).

Tom

On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description..
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df

In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing.

DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.

My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout

BG

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df

In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing.

DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places..

My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout

BG

Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire?

Tom

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df

In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing.

DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.

My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout

BG

Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire?

Tom

Haven't there been 3-4 Stemme in-flight fires world wide?

Frank

....And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

On 12/11/2019 9:37 AM, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 2:45:07 PM UTC-8, BG wrote:
On Saturday, December 7, 2019 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
I've been persuaded to give an OSTIV talk about motorglider safety issues,
in particular propulsion system failures. I'm going to discuss
common failures, the systemic reasons this stuff has happened and
WILL CONTINUE to happen, and some ideas for systemic improvements.

I'm looking for pictures and/or documentation of failures, for example:
- failed position switches (ie limit switches, prop position sensor)
- failed fuel systems (improper hoses, routing, leak sources, etc)
- failed structural components (cracked exhaust, mounts, pylons, etc)
- failed drive belts
- failed electrical connectors
- failed motor controller
- failed electronics
and anything else you might happen to have.

Ideally a good photo, make and model, approximate date, brief description.
Please email to me offline.

Thanks in advance for the help!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: Probably time to redo this study, but situation isn't that much changed:
http://www.nadler.com/public/DeRese_...ilplanes.p df
In the late 80's a DG 400 taking off from El Tiro lost his prop after the bolts sheared off. It was concluded the wooden prop had shrunk and the bolts were free to move. It happened about 1000AGL, those of us who were watching heard the engine rev really high then a shut down followed by call on the radio for a emergency landing. The prop walked down the wing hitting it three times, the last hit near the end went through the top and bottoms skins. All was OK on landing.

DR Jack's ASW 26e had a fire in the engine bay that nearly burnt the tall boom off. A belt came apart and cut a fuel line. He stayed with the plane till landing. As I was in the shop, the repair people were amazed it did not break off, the composited was completely burned through in most places.

My worse events in my DG 800b were a failure of the uphaul motor so I could not retract the engine and second was a contamination in the fuel line after they were replaced. Debris kept the needle valve open so the engine was flooding on a air restart. Using full throttle it would run, preventing a landout

BG
Dr Jack's in-flight fire was the scariest incident I have heard of. Does anyone know if he shut off fuel after the start of the fire?

Tom
Haven't there been 3-4 Stemme in-flight fires world wide?

Frank

--
Dan, 5J

Dan Marotta wrote on 12/11/2019 9:02 AM:
...And this is why I already have a fire plan for my Stemme: ENGINE FIRE
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gu2yzjylio6wajg/PastedGraphic-1.tiff?dl=0

What is the plan?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1