Reamed out by Approach

Hi Bob;

You sound good to go to me. Try not to let yourself become intimidated in
heavy traffic. It's easy enough to do when things are coming at you verbally
at mach 3 and the controllers are a bit "overworked" :-)
What I've always done if the controllers are busy and a radio call comes
through during heavy volume traffic that I think is for me but could be
ambitious; is that I just wait for the right moment (a break in mike
activity) and simply ask in plain language if the call was for me. It's
better to make the extra call and clarify than to take a chance on an action
that might have been meant for someone else. After all has been said on it,
the controllers will appreciate you asking rather than waiting because you
were intimidated.
I think a lot of pilots get all wrapped up in constantly using proper
phraseology instead of going for clarification when these ambiguities crop
up from time to time in heavy traffic. Not that proper radio procedure isn't
important, but it's just that sometimes clarification in plain English will
suffice.
Actually, in fifty years of flying, I can't honestly say that I ever
remember having a controller flip out on me for laying a clarification out
there in plain English.
Dudley



"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:
SNIP
I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

After you hear a call you think might be for you, and you get that feeling
that they may have forgot about you, yes by all means ask if the call is for
you. Like he said, they may be a little tired and overloaded.

'bravo 511, squawk 1200 and contact state'

'columbus approach, was that call for (full call sign)?'

this does three things. if the guy lost your puck or forgot about you, it
puts your tail number back in his head. It also lets him know you are paying
attention. nothing gets a controller hot faster when he has pilots zooming
around a busy airspace that seem to be daydreaming. it also lets you know
for sure if he's talking to you or not.

don't be afraid, ask! that's their job.

Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be
for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third
call to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on
118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd
never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him
if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you
still with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511."

Any chance your squelch was set too high? That can cause the first
syllable or two of an incomming call to be clipped off, distorting the
sound of the message. It might sound like the controller starts talking
before keying the mic. Ask me how I know...

No, the radio was working perfectly, and I heard all other calls very
clearly. I think he was just rushing his calls because he felt overworked.
(He actually didn't seem that busy, concidering that there was plenty of
dead air on the frequency, but who knows). Someone at the OSU FBO said that
they use Columbus to train a lot of controllers, so he may have been a bit
green.

Thanks for all the kind words, everyone. I'm a "just-short-of-300-hour"
pilot, and don't have thousands of hours of experience to draw from. Hey,
it's a license to learn, and I'm still learning a lot. :-)

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Grumman 236" wrote in message
oups.com...

Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be
for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third
call to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on
118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd
never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him
if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you
still with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511."

Any chance your squelch was set too high? That can cause the first
syllable or two of an incomming call to be clipped off, distorting the
sound of the message. It might sound like the controller starts talking
before keying the mic. Ask me how I know...

Hi Bob,

You handled very well, nothing nasty happend so let it go.
Things like this happens all the time, in the air or not.
It is spring for the controller as well, and he is sitting in a dark
room looking at a screen, you did the flying.
He was just jealous.

A similair thing happend to me and I'm still do not know what went
wrong.
One day I had to make a flight from Germany to Holland.
International flights means filing a flight plan even if you are VFR.
My route was over Germany, Holland, Belgium and Holland again.
So I faxed my flight plan, departure was from a small airfield.
In the air I activated it and that went right.
Crossing the Dutch border gave no problems.
Arriving at the Belgian border I called Brussels Information with of
course my call sign D-EDMB and intensions.
Answer: DMB bla bla bla QNH 1019
Me: DMB bla bla bla QNH 1019.
Ok that went well.
After about 10 minutes they start to call an OMB.
Well thats not me, I thought.
And they keep trying to contact a OMB every 5 minues or so.
Nearing the Dutch border I requested to change freq. (thats about 25
min. later)
Them: DMB, Freg. change approved, and we tried to contact you for 20
minutes.
Me: DMB, Freq. change approved, well, I'm DMB, I only heard calls to
OMB.
Them: Oh, goodbye.
Me: Goodbye, DMB.
Holland went right again though.

What happend here?
They have a flight plan for a D-EDMB, the first call went right.
I do not get it.

-Kees

In article .com, wrote:
Them: DMB, Freg. change approved, and we tried to contact you for 20
minutes.
Me: DMB, Freq. change approved, well, I'm DMB, I only heard calls to
OMB.
What happend here?
They have a flight plan for a D-EDMB, the first call went right.
I do not get it.

On the crappy 9-pin dotmatrix teleprinters that ATC still use (printers
I saw British Rail using 15 years ago), the letter D and O look very
similar.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Recently, Bob Chilcoat posted:

Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic
for "Archer 411" a couple of times, so I asked if he was calling
"Archer 44511". He seemed exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I
immediately spotted and announced that "511 has traffic".

[...]

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a
call might be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the
aircraft type an official part of the call? Any other actions I
should have taken?

Perhaps you shouldn't take this so personally. In addition to being one of
Ohio's busiest airports, OSU is a training field with many students that
at times create traffic headaches. I have encountered similarly
exasperated controllers at OSU, and just had to realize that they were
having a bad day. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't go home and complain to
his wife about "Archer 511".

Regards,

Neil

I wouldn't take it personally either. From my experience, that is just
the way the Columbus controllers are. Fly down south a little bit and
Dayton and Cincy both have extremely helpful controllers, but Columbus is
a different story.

"Neil Gould" wrote in
m:

Recently, Bob Chilcoat posted:

Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic
for "Archer 411" a couple of times, so I asked if he was calling
"Archer 44511". He seemed exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I
immediately spotted and announced that "511 has traffic".

[...]

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a
call might be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the
aircraft type an official part of the call? Any other actions I
should have taken?

Perhaps you shouldn't take this so personally. In addition to being
one of Ohio's busiest airports, OSU is a training field with many
students that at times create traffic headaches. I have encountered
similarly exasperated controllers at OSU, and just had to realize that
they were having a bad day. I'm pretty sure the guy didn't go home and
complain to his wife about "Archer 511".

Regards,

Neil

Jackal24 wrote:
I wouldn't take it personally either. From my experience, that is just
the way the Columbus controllers are.

I was gonna say the same thing. I guess it's not just me, then.

DGB

If you're sure of what transpired call the controller on the land line
and suggest that you and he and his supervisor listen to the tapes.
We pay them .. there's no excuse for them to treat us shabbily.


"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)