C172 crash at Coney Island

Ben Hallert wrote:
The class B floor is 500? Sounds like a recipe for some sort of
airspace version of scud running, which in turns sounds like a great
way to have unrecoverable stalls/engine outs, controlled flight into
terrain/water.

Why? Do you think that there are many pilots out there who can't fly straight
and level and control their altitude within 500'? IMO, anyone who can't fly
safely in that airspace shouldn't be in the left seat.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

You're right, I forgot that the FARs excepted water from the 500ft
minimum. My mistake!

Hi,

You're right, I forgot that the FARs excepted water from the 500ft
minimum. My mistake!


IIRC there's a "+" behind the "500" -meaning you're perfectly legal to fly
at exactly 500ft. I've done it before, it's perfectly safe if you keep up
your airspeed. Once the fan quits, you just land on the beach straight
ahead, or in the water

Patrick

Sure they can. But then if the engine quits, you're at the limits of w&b
(four occupants, nearly full fuel, and who knows how many fat guys are on
board)), 500' AGL/MSL, in a slow turn AND THEN YOU FLY BY THE BOOK AND TRY
TO PULL BACK AND GET TO MAX GLIDE SPEED @ 69K WHEN BEACH WINDS ARE
SLOPPY-VARIABLE -- that's a killer recipe. Notice the sky pic in the NYT
article. Doesn't look like stable air to me.

From what I know of Coney Island, if the guy eating an eggplant sandwich
at Nathan's saw the whole show, it must mean the pilot was turning to set up
a landing on the Brighton Beach side of Coney Island where there was likely
more unoccupied open space.

In my opinion, you're being dumb trying to duck under the class B floor at
500' MSL along a beach with perhaps a strong on-shore wind unless you're
solo with half-tanks in a C172S.




Why? Do you think that there are many pilots out there who can't fly
straight
and level and control their altitude within 500'? IMO, anyone who can't
fly
safely in that airspace shouldn't be in the left seat.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't
got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

R.L. wrote:
Sure they can. But then if the engine quits, you're at the limits of w&b
(four occupants, nearly full fuel, and who knows how many fat guys are on
board)), 500' AGL/MSL, in a slow turn AND THEN YOU FLY BY THE BOOK AND TRY
TO PULL BACK AND GET TO MAX GLIDE SPEED @ 69K WHEN BEACH WINDS ARE
SLOPPY-VARIABLE -- that's a killer recipe.

Well, if that's what you would do and if that's a killer recipe for you, then
you should definitely not fly there.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

"R.L." wrote in message
om...
Sure they can. But then if the engine quits, you're at the limits of w&b
(four occupants, nearly full fuel, and who knows how many fat guys are on
board)), 500' AGL/MSL, in a slow turn AND THEN YOU FLY BY THE BOOK AND
TRY
TO PULL BACK AND GET TO MAX GLIDE SPEED @ 69K WHEN BEACH WINDS ARE
SLOPPY-VARIABLE -- that's a killer recipe. Notice the sky pic in the NYT
article. Doesn't look like stable air to me.

From what I know of Coney Island, if the guy eating an eggplant
sandwich
at Nathan's saw the whole show, it must mean the pilot was turning to set
up
a landing on the Brighton Beach side of Coney Island where there was
likely
more unoccupied open space.

In my opinion, you're being dumb trying to duck under the class B floor at
500' MSL along a beach with perhaps a strong on-shore wind unless you're
solo with half-tanks in a C172S.

Are you talkiing about a gale force wind? I doubt it. The wind has no
appreciable effect.

moo

"Ben Hallert" wrote in message
oups.com...
The class B floor is 500? Sounds like a recipe for some sort of
airspace version of scud running, which in turns sounds like a great
way to have unrecoverable stalls/engine outs, controlled flight into
terrain/water.

New Orleans has that also... As long as you're over the lake at less than
whatever the floor is (500-600 ft, if I remember correctly), you don't have
to talk to ATC and possibly end up getting routed to BFE (no, I'm not
talking about Terry County Airport in Texas)... I usually flew it at around
200-300 ft... No big deal... If you can't maintain your altitude well enough
to do this, you probably shouldn't be flying anyway... Either that or just
talk to the controllers and you'll get a chance to tour BFE...

Or was showing off, hope that wasn't the case. But it does show the
dangers of low, slow steep turns.

Subsequent updates are emphasizing witness reports that the engine sounded
like it was sputtering, so perhaps an engine failure did contribute to the
crash.

--Gary

"Gary Drescher" wrote:

Subsequent updates are emphasizing witness reports that the engine
sounded like it was sputtering,

Witnesses often say that, particularly if the airplane was spinning.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM