WW II - Diesel birds?

"Max Richter" wrote in message
...
a few JU 86 highflying reconissance Planes used twostroke Junkers Jumo
205C-4 liquid-cooled Diesel engines for patrol over Great Britain.


The Jumo 205 for this version also was equipped with a pair of centrifugal
superchargers mounted in series. The cabin pressure was provided by
tapping the port engine-driven blower.

Pre-war the Napier company had licensed the Jumo design
as the Culverin and although development of it stopped in
1939 ir was to become the basis for the post war Napier Nomad

This was a real beast essentially consisting of 2 enlarged Culverins
connected in the form of an H block acting as gas generator
for a gas turbine that drove the propellor and just for good
measure it had an afterburner for take off. making it a 24 piston
12 cylinder Diesel engine and gas turbine with reheat !


Keith.

"Cougar" wrote in message
...
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

The Germans built a number in the 30's , the Jumo J-204 was a
6 cylinder , vertically opposed 12 piston engine with 2 crankshafts
connected by chain developing around 600HP
It was quite heavy but had excellent fuel consumption
and was built under license in Britain as
the Napier Culverin and used in a variety of aircraft
including some Ju-52's

Keith

In article ,
Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

More pre-WW2 than during: the Germans were keen on lightweight
(for some value of lightweight) 2-stroke aerodiesels, using
them in several flying boat designs. These Junkers opposed-
piston designs were licenced pre-war by Napier (as the Culverin)
but they never saw much use in .uk
During the war - well, /particularly/ for the germans considerations
of absolute fuel economy soon became secondary to improving performance
so aerodiesels fell out of use for all but maritime patrol a/c which
might expect to be operating away from fighter opposition - the
Dornier 18 and the Blohm und Voss 138(? the 3-engined flying shoe)
continued to use diesels until the advent of the escort 'carrier
saw an end to their activities.
The allies (and the italians, and the japanese) never really
bothered with aero-diesels for warplanes, for fairly obvious
reasons.
Post-war there was nearly a come-back, with the Napier Nomad
turbo-compound (a hybrid diesel-gas turbine engine, with the
diesel driving the compressor stage) proposed for an evolution
of the Shackleton. I believe it's still the among the most
fuel-efficient engines ever built, but it never went into
production.

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)

Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

140 Ju-86D's.

276 Bv-138's. All used the Junkers Jumo 205

These were not used due to gas shortages.

I think the Ju-86's might have been an attempt to use the
diesels to see how they would work out in service (better engines
replaced them) and perhaps the Bv-138 used them due to their intended
use in conjunction with naval vessels.

"old hoodoo" wrote in message
news:EO7me.74275$yV4.25134@okepread03...


Cougar wrote:
Somebody on another forum was trying to convince people that
because of the gasoline shortages during WW-II that there were
quiet a few aircraft that actually used diesel fuel.

I know that people are playing with that today, but was it
really used in aviation back then?

Thanks,
Coug

140 Ju-86D's.

276 Bv-138's. All used the Junkers Jumo 205

These were not used due to gas shortages.

I think the Ju-86's might have been an attempt to use the diesels
to see how they would work out in service (better engines replaced them)
and perhaps the Bv-138 used them due to their intended use in conjunction
with naval vessels.

The Ju 86s were a combination of two hopes - greater range, and greater
power from the diesels. But the lack of acceleration killed this off, as
even in?1936? it was clear that the diesel-engined Ju 86s were 'easy meat'
compared to the petrol variant. As an earlier poster reported, where
altitude was needed, not acceleration, then diesel-engined variants had a
future - but when fighters could reach those altitudes, it was again the end
of the diesel.

In article ,
(J DUDLEY) wrote:

power from the diesels. But the lack of acceleration killed this off,
as even in?1936? it was clear that the diesel-engined Ju 86s were 'easy
meat' compared to the petrol variant. As an earlier poster reported,
where altitude was needed, not acceleration, then diesel-engined
variants had a future - but when fighters could reach those altitudes,
it was again the end of the diesel.

Yes - the high-altitude variant was moderately successful for a while,
then some Spitfires were stripped down until they could make the altitude.
That stopped German reece over the UK mainland until they got Arado 234s.

---
John Dallman, , HTML mail is treated as probable spam.

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.


Rich

"R Leonard" wrote in news:1117507544.101576.304210
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of flying
model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period so equipped.

Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Dave in San Diego

Dave in San Diego wrote:
Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They
start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Close, but for clarification:

o There are diesel model engines today. They run at a higher
compression than glow engines, and run on diesel fuel, rather than glow
fuel, which is basically a methanol/oil mix. Typically, they don't have
glow plugs.

o Glow engines, although they appear to run on the heat of compression,
won't continue running without a hot glow plug filament. (After the
engine is running, and battery voltage is removed, the filament
continues to glow from the heat of ignition, the ignition having been
caused by the glowing filament.)

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)
Surplus (For sale or trade):

"John Miller" wrote in message
...
Dave in San Diego wrote:
Many model airplane engines today are still two-stroke diesels. They
start
with a glow plug and continue running after starting just the way big
diesels do.

Close, but for clarification:

o There are diesel model engines today. They run at a higher
compression than glow engines, and run on diesel fuel, rather than glow
fuel, which is basically a methanol/oil mix. Typically, they don't have
glow plugs.

o Glow engines, although they appear to run on the heat of compression,
won't continue running without a hot glow plug filament. (After the
engine is running, and battery voltage is removed, the filament
continues to glow from the heat of ignition, the ignition having been
caused by the glowing filament.)


Glow plugs were used on gasoline engines long before the
spark plug was invented. On early engines the glow plug
had to be heated with a blowlamp before the engine
could be started. The plug itself was a copper or
brass rod that protruded into the cyliner.

Keith




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