A thousand incursions a year?

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
1) the DC ADIZ isn't new is it? It isn't the only ADIZ, is it?

It's not actually an ADIZ. It has the same name, using the same acronym,
but the rules are substantially different from the true ADIZ airspace.

2) Given that I've worked on USAF Air Defense systems, including
stuff in the NCR, I better know the purpose of the DC ADIZ.

Okay. So, do you? Know the purpose of the DC ADIZ, that is.

And note that I've never ever said having an ADIZ over/around
DC is necessary.

That's a relief.

Pete

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:45:30 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
_b8Ce.156431$x96.114510@attbi_s72::


But if there really are that many, I'm afraid this says volumes more about
the caliber of our pilots than it does about the utility of an ADIZ.

Admittedly, there is adequate human incompetence in any group you care
to name to assure that some errors will occur. But restricting 2,000
square miles of some of the busiest airspace in the entire world is
guaranteed to trap even competent airmen. To expect an invisible 100
mile (?) perimeter boundary to preclude accidental incursions is
absurd. Add to that the lack of surface landmarks to mark the
boundary, the obscuration of weather, night time operations, and the
inevitable ATC errors, and the volume of inadvertent DC ADIZ
incursions isn't so unreasonable.

Airing disparaging sentiment toward our ranks, while perhaps lending a
bit of public credibility to your arguments, does a disservice to our
fellows at a time when solidarity is crucial.

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:29:41 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote in
::

do you? Know the purpose of the DC ADIZ

My guess at the ostensible purpose of the DC ADIZ would be, to provide
uncluttered buffer space from the ground based missile batteries
(located at its center within the FRZ) in which to determine if the
aircraft in violation of the ADIZ regulations is friend or foe before
needlessly shooting down innocent citizens.

Anyone who knows anything about security, knows that only completely
locked (and thus unusable) systems are even remotely invulnerable.
While possibly attempted with the best of intentions, the security
measures implemented since September 11, 2001 only serve to confound
those with no criminal intent, and bear piteous testament to the
impossibility of securing a free populace.

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

[...] Maybe we really aren't as good as we think?

I have always questioned the attitude that pilots are somehow better than
the rest of the world. There are some differences, to be sure...the
certification process eliminates people who are not fully committed. But it
does nothing to eliminate the idiots.

There are some drivers I know that are downright scary. I hope the
certification process would eliminate some of those from actually getting
a certificate. I mean, come on, there are folks I know that could
hide their own easter eggs, and these people are driving!

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

2) Given that I've worked on USAF Air Defense systems, including
stuff in the NCR, I better know the purpose of the DC ADIZ.

Okay. So, do you? Know the purpose of the DC ADIZ, that is.

yep. Already said it a couple of posts ago. That's not to say there
aren't side effects or that it is properly set up for its purpose.
But it's there to help the air defense folks responsible for the NCR
separate friend from foe.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

I forgot to mention in my original post that in this program
was plenty of video demonstrating the laser warning system.

In the night footage the waring flashes were very clear.

However, in the daylight footage it was hard to spot. It
just didn't appear to stand out all that much. I would venture
to say that if someone was looking 90 degrees away from
the laser they wouldn't even notice it in the daytime.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Peter Duniho" wrote:

2) Given that I've worked on USAF Air Defense systems, including
stuff in the NCR, I better know the purpose of the DC ADIZ.

Okay. So, do you? Know the purpose of the DC ADIZ, that is.

yep. Already said it a couple of posts ago. That's not to say there
aren't side effects or that it is properly set up for its purpose.
But it's there to help the air defense folks responsible for the NCR
separate friend from foe.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule


How are the friendly trucks separated from the foes?

"Skywise" wrote in message ...
I forgot to mention in my original post that in this program
was plenty of video demonstrating the laser warning system.

In the night footage the waring flashes were very clear.

However, in the daylight footage it was hard to spot. It
just didn't appear to stand out all that much. I would venture
to say that if someone was looking 90 degrees away from
the laser they wouldn't even notice it in the daytime.

Brian
--


All this is based on the assumption that the ADIZ is a valid premise anyway

In article ,
" Blueskies" wrote:

How are the friendly trucks separated from the foes?

good question (but making that determination is not the
responsibility of the Air Defense folks in the NCR).

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

Larry Dighera wrote:

How can you be so sure that the ADIZ isn't a typically poorly thought
out, airline industry inspired, TSA pseudo-security measure to provide
the public with tangible evidence that the TSA are earning their pay,
and the military with additional stateside operational duty?

You can't; however, NPR broadcast a discussion of security measures back when
the results of the 9/11 commission were made public. One of the officials
interviewed stated that "they" had been agitating for the equivalent of this
ADIZ for many years and that one of the "good things" about the terrorist
situation is that "no-one can seriously argue any more that the ADIZ isn't
necessary."

I'm afraid I no longer remember who made that comment, but I believe it was a
military officer.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.