Cardinal 177A 1968 advice

If it's an A model it's a 1969, 180 HP and fixed prop. The 68's had 150
HP and fixed prop. I had a 69 A model. All 177's had the same tail and
the stalling problem was fixed with the slots in the leading edge of the
tail. The 150 HP model is a dog. I was happy to get rid of mine.



wrote:
Hello there,

I am considering the purchase of a Cardinal 177A with low frame and
engine times, nice gps and slaved HSI. It has had 2 accidents, one in
2003 requiring major work to everything in front of and including the
firewall. I have flown the plane and it feels heavier on the landings
with more stick pressure required than in the 172`s I have flown but
otherwise OK. I have heard that this early model Cardinal has tail
stall issues and that one should not fill her up to the max permitted
gross weight on warm days. I would be flying alone 95% of the time and
in Canada where we only have cold days.

Any thoughts by owners on this plane?

Tien, CP

a C177 will feel nose heavier than a 172..
an A model does get "tail stalls" when landing.. if slow.. that's why the
mod on the B model

I've run out of nose up trim on final in 177B RG with two in the front seats
and light on fuel, no aft baggage. Nothing I could not hold up, just could
not trim it out at 70KIAS on final.

BT

" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello there,

I am considering the purchase of a Cardinal 177A with low frame and
engine times, nice gps and slaved HSI. It has had 2 accidents, one in
2003 requiring major work to everything in front of and including the
firewall. I have flown the plane and it feels heavier on the landings
with more stick pressure required than in the 172`s I have flown but
otherwise OK. I have heard that this early model Cardinal has tail
stall issues and that one should not fill her up to the max permitted
gross weight on warm days. I would be flying alone 95% of the time and
in Canada where we only have cold days.

Any thoughts by owners on this plane?

Tien, CP

an A model does get "tail stalls" when landing.. if slow.. that's why
the
mod on the B model


Don't think this is correct. The fixed slats cured the problem. What
mod were they supposed to have done for the tail stall? The airfoil was
changed to give a slower stall speed(7 mph!) and better short field and
climb perf, which is why they added the CS prop. If anything, it made
the CG problem worse. A random plane in the field could be slightly out
of rig causing the trim problem. Several VERY knowledgeable friends of
mine have RGs and they say trim is no problem. Even those that have 3
blade prop conversions(heavier) don't seem to run out of trim. Also,
RGs don't have the B designation, just C177RG. Was this what you were
flying?

wrote:
an A model does get "tail stalls" when landing.. if slow.. that's why
the
mod on the B model


Don't think this is correct.

What approach speed do you use on short final? I have heard things to
effect of not going too slow and not going too fast. Big help! The
owner suggests an approach at 80 knots. I feel that I could probably
land OK with shorter distances at 75. I often use 65 on a 172M but
from what I read, 65 is too slow for a 1968 177.

Tien

I "cross the fence' at 70 MPH indicated(full flaps). 80 knots is about
92 MPH which is way too fast. You will almost certainly bounce at that
speed. The early models had the airspeed shown in MPH whereas later
models were in knots. There is some great, free advice and discussion
on this subject(and most anything else about Cardinals you could
imagine) at www.cardinalflyers.com. Keith Peterson and Paul Milner who
run the site are very Cardinal owners. Check it out. The secret to
great (meaning no porpoising or such) is to never push the nose down
once you are in the flare. Keep it level or above and everything will
be OK. Trust me, I have dropped mine in from great heights and that
steel gear just soaks it up. Just hold your nose steady and the bounces
soon stop. Start chasing it and you can be in big trouble pronto. Most
people used to 172s and the like are surprised by how fast the full
stabilator will react if you start trying to correct a bad flare, and
end up over correcting. Also, all 68 Cardinals were modified with the
stabilator slats at Cessna's expense during the first year they were
out. All models since then, 177A, 177B, and 177RGs had the slats from
the factory. Cardinals were much (undeservedly) maligned for years due
to this issue. Most people (including Aviation Consumer which loves
them) have finally admitted what a great plane it is (which is why I
actually went looking for one).
The 68s can be great buys since you can buy them much cheaper. An
acquaintance of mine has a 68 with your 160 HP mod, a Powerflow
exhaust, and a cowl flap speed mod that really does as advertised, and
his is as fast and climbs as well as a 180 HP model. Could be a good
buy if the price is right. Just be careful of gross weight.

Regards,
Bruce Cunningham
N30464

I "cross the fence' at 70 MPH indicated(full flaps). 80 knots is about
92 MPH which is way too fast. You will almost certainly bounce at that
speed. The early models had the airspeed shown in MPH whereas later
models were in knots. There is some great, free advice and discussion
on this subject(and most anything else about Cardinals you could
imagine) at www.cardinalflyers.com. Keith Peterson and Paul Milner who
run the site are very Cardinal owners. Check it out. The secret to
great (meaning no porpoising or such) is to never push the nose down
once you are in the flare. Keep it level or above and everything will
be OK. Trust me, I have dropped mine in from great heights and that
steel gear just soaks it up. Just hold your nose steady and the bounces
soon stop. Start chasing it and you can be in big trouble pronto. Most
people used to 172s and the like are surprised by how fast the full
stabilator will react if you start trying to correct a bad flare, and
end up over correcting. Also, all 68 Cardinals were modified with the
stabilator slats at Cessna's expense during the first year they were
out. All models since then, 177A, 177B, and 177RGs had the slats from
the factory. Cardinals were much (undeservedly) maligned for years due
to this issue. Most people (including Aviation Consumer which loves
them) have finally admitted what a great plane it is (which is why I
actually went looking for one).
The 68s can be great buys since you can buy them much cheaper. An
acquaintance of mine has a 68 with your 160 HP mod, a Powerflow
exhaust, and a cowl flap speed mod that really does as advertised, and
his is as fast and climbs as well as a 180 HP model. Could be a good
buy if the price is right. Just be careful of gross weight.

Regards,
Bruce Cunningham
N30464

IIRC the "A" does not have the "fixed slats" that the "B" has...
that is the Mod I refer too... but it has been a few years since I've flown
the 177RG
BT

wrote in message
oups.com...
an A model does get "tail stalls" when landing.. if slow.. that's why
the
mod on the B model


Don't think this is correct. The fixed slats cured the problem. What
mod were they supposed to have done for the tail stall? The airfoil was
changed to give a slower stall speed(7 mph!) and better short field and
climb perf, which is why they added the CS prop. If anything, it made
the CG problem worse. A random plane in the field could be slightly out
of rig causing the trim problem. Several VERY knowledgeable friends of
mine have RGs and they say trim is no problem. Even those that have 3
blade prop conversions(heavier) don't seem to run out of trim. Also,
RGs don't have the B designation, just C177RG. Was this what you were
flying?

all 68 Cardinals were modified with the
stabilator slats at Cessna's expense during the first year they were
out. All models since then, 177A, 177B, and 177RGs had the slats from
the factory.