Aviation Pioneers Return to Chicago Lakefront

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:6Yhyf.124$pq5.55@trndny02...
Doug wrote:
I wonder who has jurisdiction over the use of the surface of the water
on Lake Michigan in that area. Wisconson, Illinois, Michigan, Chicago
or the Federal governement or ....? Surely NOT the Chicago police
department.

The Federal government has jurisdiction over all navigable waterways.

The Chicago Police has a marine unit also. I believe they patrol up to 3
miles out. This web site is a bit dated but talks about the unit.
http://www.chicagoboaters.com/PeopleProfiles/CPMU.htm

While local law enforcement may patrol along their shores, the Feds
retain jurisdiction over all navigable waterways.

"mr" wrote in message
...

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:6Yhyf.124$pq5.55@trndny02...
Doug wrote:
I wonder who has jurisdiction over the use of the surface of the
water
on Lake Michigan in that area. Wisconson, Illinois, Michigan,
Chicago
or the Federal governement or ....? Surely NOT the Chicago police
department.

The Federal government has jurisdiction over all navigable waterways.

The Chicago Police has a marine unit also. I believe they patrol up to
3 miles out. This web site is a bit dated but talks about the unit.
http://www.chicagoboaters.com/PeopleProfiles/CPMU.htm

As someone who has owned a Seaplane for several years and flown it all
over USA, Canada and Alaska, I can tell you it is not as simple as
"Feds retain juridiction over all navigable waterways". What is
navigable? What is a vessel? There are many, many, many waterways
where boating and recreation are under state, county, city or some
other entity's control other than the "Feds". And they are waterways
being navigated, so in some sense, they are navigable.

Now Lake Michigan being a large, obviously commercially navigable
waterway, I am sure the Coast Guard has juridiction over much of it.
But it also lies in numerous states and there are numerous harbor
authorities that come into play, cities, counties, parks, who knows
what all?

mr wrote:
"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:6Yhyf.124$pq5.55@trndny02...
Doug wrote:
I wonder who has jurisdiction over the use of the surface of the water
on Lake Michigan in that area. Wisconson, Illinois, Michigan, Chicago
or the Federal governement or ....? Surely NOT the Chicago police
department.

The Federal government has jurisdiction over all navigable waterways.

The Chicago Police has a marine unit also. I believe they patrol up to 3
miles out. This web site is a bit dated but talks about the unit.
http://www.chicagoboaters.com/PeopleProfiles/CPMU.htm

The CFD helo would also respond, as would their scuba team. The scuba
team "practices" between North Ave. and Oak St. in the summer, but are
really checking out the babes by the chess pavillion.

The Park District owns the harbors in the city, with CPD MU and
security contractors patrolling.

A "mayday" call within radio distance of Chicago would get you CPD,
CFD, coast guard
helo from Waukegan? and the occasional IL state conservation police
boat.

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG

wrote in message
ps.com...


In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG

A float/sea plane landing in the open waters of Lake Michigan is anything
but a stunt. It is no more a stunt than any of the thousands of boats that
ply the waters on a summer week-end. The city has absolutely nothing to do
with those waters other than the fact the residents drink the water after
dumping raw sewage into it. If people can't tell the difference between a
float/seaplane and a plane with wheels, oh well. Capisca?

On 1/15/06 2:26 PM, in article
, "
wrote:

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG


Could you please explain what is childish about landing a seaplane in the
water?

by "Doug" anothername@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jan 13, 2006 at 02:49 PM


I wonder who has jurisdiction over the use of the surface of the water
on Lake Michigan in that area. Wisconson, Illinois, Michigan, Chicago
or the Federal governement or ....? Surely NOT the Chicago police
department. I don't know of any laws prohibiting landing of a Seaplane
on Lake Michigan, but there may be some that I don't know of. Also it
depends on WHERE on Lake Michigan. The harbors are one jurisdiction and
the Lake is another and just where you are on the lake matters also.

According to a publication I read, there is one large area over Lake
Michigan, adjacent to the Sheboygan area, that is restricted airspace to
provide space for a program called Rockets for Schools. It was approved
decades ago by the FAA to provide high school students a place to launch
sub-orbital small scale rockets.

The Great Lakes Aeorspace and Science Center at the Sheboygan Armory may
see a future (private) rocket launch facility built, I read.

Chicago Police Marine Unit have jurisdiction out 3 miles along the city
limits. It doesn't matter. So far, they don't prohibit seaplane operations.
According to City Ordinance confirmed by me with the Chicago Police, they
view planes in the sky as not their problem. Planes on the water are treated
like boats. Further out is Coast Guard jurisdiction and has practically no
special restrictions.

I have landed inside the breakwalls just off Navy Pier. The timing was
right - waves and boat traffic were low. The Chicago Police monitor marine
channel 16 and are very knowledgeable and friendly.

There are boating restrictions that apply to seaplanes on the water. Like,
no boats within 150 feet of marked beaches, no wake zones, etc. As long as
you abide by those rules, the Police are more interested in taking pictures
and asking questions than causing a fuss.

If I think it is likely that I will be landing in their back yard (so to
speak), I call them with my name, N number, a description of the plane, and
the fact that I will be monitoring channel 16 on the water. The last time,
they came out, called me by name and asked to come along side. They had a
pot of coffee in the galley and I ended up spending about 45 minutes with
them. Nice guys!

jgrove24 sounds a bit scared but berating him (or her) here does nothing to
promote aviation. The references to low flying ORD traffic is either a
misjudgment of altitude (easy to do for the novice) or a reference to
non-ORD traffic flying under the Class B. Either way, there is certainly a
risk which should be acknowledged. I happen to think it is a very small risk
of collision and an incredibly small risk of damage to the land-based
population should tragedy strike.

The recent move by an alderman to suggest a restriction against seaplanes to
avoid unnecessary calls to 911 will probably go away but we continue to
monitor the situation. Of course, the ordinance is a ridiculous response but
it has good company with the actions of the mayor. The best counter-response
is reasoned education, not flame throwing. I'll take the same path with
jgrove24.

--
-------------------------------
Travis



"Skylune" wrote in message
lkaboutaviation.com...
by "Doug" anothername@[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jan 13, 2006 at 02:49 PM


I wonder who has jurisdiction over the use of the surface of the water
on Lake Michigan in that area. Wisconson, Illinois, Michigan, Chicago
or the Federal governement or ....? Surely NOT the Chicago police
department. I don't know of any laws prohibiting landing of a Seaplane
on Lake Michigan, but there may be some that I don't know of. Also it
depends on WHERE on Lake Michigan. The harbors are one jurisdiction and
the Lake is another and just where you are on the lake matters also.

According to a publication I read, there is one large area over Lake
Michigan, adjacent to the Sheboygan area, that is restricted airspace to
provide space for a program called Rockets for Schools. It was approved
decades ago by the FAA to provide high school students a place to launch
sub-orbital small scale rockets.

The Great Lakes Aeorspace and Science Center at the Sheboygan Armory may
see a future (private) rocket launch facility built, I read.

Interesting. Are there any docks you can dock a Seaplane at Chicago
Lakefront? What kind of Seaplane do you fly, Travis?

As far as I can tell, there are no publicly accessible docks that would work
with any kind of floatplane.

I forget who it was but somebody was running for office and was going to
land a Grumman off Navy Pier and make a grand entrance to a campaign stop.
They never did it because of high winds on that day but the plan was to moor
the plane and use a shuttle to get to shore. I take that to mean that there
are no places to easily get a shore without getting your feet wet.

I fly a Lake Buccaneer.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
"Doug" wrote in message
oups.com...
Interesting. Are there any docks you can dock a Seaplane at Chicago
Lakefront? What kind of Seaplane do you fly, Travis?