Does an IPC count as a BFR?

Okay, I've read the regulations and still can't figure out the answer to
this question: If I received an IPC from a CFII one year after my last BFR,
do I need to get another BFR in 12 months or 24 months from now??


Yes. An IPC and a BFR are different, and they cover different aspects of
flying. However, both can be covered in the same flight if you tell the
instructor that's what you want (and he is qualified to do both). The flight
will probably be longer, but not as long as two separate checkrides.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

In a similar vein, does an instrument checkride count as a BFR? I
thought it did since it added a rating to the ticket.

-Cory

Teacherjh wrote:
:
: Okay, I've read the regulations and still can't figure out the answer to
: this question: If I received an IPC from a CFII one year after my last BFR,
: do I need to get another BFR in 12 months or 24 months from now??
:

: Yes. An IPC and a BFR are different, and they cover different aspects of
: flying. However, both can be covered in the same flight if you tell the
: instructor that's what you want (and he is qualified to do both). The flight
: will probably be longer, but not as long as two separate checkrides.

: Jose

: --
: (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

Yes it does, its a rating on a pilot certificate.

14 CFR 61.56(d)
A person who has, within the period specified in paragraph (c) of this
section, passed a pilot proficiency check conducted by an examiner, an
approved pilot check airman, or a U.S. Armed Force, for a pilot certificate,
rating, or operating privilege need not accomplish the flight review
required
by this section.

wrote in message
...
In a similar vein, does an instrument checkride count as a BFR? I
thought it did since it added a rating to the ticket.

-Cory

Teacherjh wrote:
:
: Okay, I've read the regulations and still can't figure out the answer to
: this question: If I received an IPC from a CFII one year after my last
BFR,
: do I need to get another BFR in 12 months or 24 months from now??
:

: Yes. An IPC and a BFR are different, and they cover different aspects
of
: flying. However, both can be covered in the same flight if you tell the
: instructor that's what you want (and he is qualified to do both). The
flight
: will probably be longer, but not as long as two separate checkrides.

: Jose

: --
: (for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote
In a similar vein, does an instrument checkride count as a BFR? I
thought it did since it added a rating to the ticket.

It does. However, an instrument instructor ride does not - even
though it is the same ride (only from the right seat).

Of course there's no reason for it - it's just our policy.

BTW - there are a handful of CFII's out there who can't do BFR's
(because they only have the IA rating on the CFI certificate, not ASE
or AME) but they are very much the exception rather than the rule.
Further, I can't for the life of me imagine a situation where I would
be comfortable signing off an ICC and being unwilling to sign off a
BFR. In general, if you're doing an ICC and want a BFR as well, just
ask. Most instructors won't think twice about it.

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
wrote
In a similar vein, does an instrument checkride count as a BFR? I
thought it did since it added a rating to the ticket.

It does. However, an instrument instructor ride does not - even
though it is the same ride (only from the right seat).

Of course there's no reason for it - it's just our policy.


It may be your policy, but it does not really follow the regs. Yes, I know
the argument that the instructor certificate is not a pilot certificate, but
it sure gets treated as a pilot certificate for all other purposes. I also
know that the policy varies from one FSDO to another. I also know that most
examiners will sign the ride off as a BFR if you ask them to do that.

C J Campbell wrote:
"Michael" wrote in message
om...

wrote

In a similar vein, does an instrument checkride count as a BFR? I
thought it did since it added a rating to the ticket.

It does. However, an instrument instructor ride does not - even
though it is the same ride (only from the right seat).

Of course there's no reason for it - it's just our policy.



It may be your policy, but it does not really follow the regs. Yes, I know
the argument that the instructor certificate is not a pilot certificate, but
it sure gets treated as a pilot certificate for all other purposes. I also
know that the policy varies from one FSDO to another. I also know that most
examiners will sign the ride off as a BFR if you ask them to do that.

Isn't there a requirement, or a guideline, or something, that the BFR should
include an hour of ground instruction? Seems like I've had that requirement put
on me by instructors on the last few BFRs. The time is spent
grilling^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H instructing me on the FARs. I don't remember ever
having any ground instruction component as part of an IPC.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

"C J Campbell" wrote
It may be your policy, but it does not really follow the regs. Yes, I know
the argument that the instructor certificate is not a pilot certificate, but
it sure gets treated as a pilot certificate for all other purposes. I also
know that the policy varies from one FSDO to another.

Actually, it varies from one inspector to another.

Not too long ago, we had a jumpship crash. The pilot did all the
right things, but when the engine of a heavy single fails in the climb
at 400 ft, you just don't have many options. The field was wet and
rough, and there was substantial damage but no injuries. The accident
was reported, and the investigation delegated to the FAA. The pilot
made the mistake of noting that he never seems to hear of automobile
engines having catastrophic failures, but certified airplane engines
fail with depressing regularity. Next thing you know, he's written up
for flying with an expired BFR - enven though he had taken his CFII
ride only a few months ago. Your tax dollars at work.

I also know that most
examiners will sign the ride off as a BFR if you ask them to do that.

That's another gray area, worse than the original.

61.56 Flight review.
(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (f) of this section, a
flight
review consists of a minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour
of ground
training.

The FAA is pretty adamant that a checkride is not instruction.

Personally, I don't understand why the instructor doesn't just sign
the BFR. There's no way I would be comfortable signing someone off
for a CFI ride and not willing to sign off a BFR.

Michael

On Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:53:55 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:

but
it sure gets treated as a pilot certificate for all other purposes.

"All?" I have never seen even one FAR that =does= treat a CFI
certificate as a pilot certificate.

From a pure regulation standpoint, the FAR treats instructor
certificates separately from pilot certificates. Staring with

==============================
§ 61.1 Applicability and definitions.
(a) This part prescribes:
(1) The requirements for issuing =pilot, flight instructor, and ground
instructor certificates= and ratings; the conditions under which those
certificates and ratings are necessary; and the privileges and
limitations of those certificates and ratings.
(2) The requirements for issuing =pilot, flight instructor, and ground
instructor= authorizations; the conditions under which those
authorizations are necessary; and the privileges and limitations of
those authorizations.
(3) The requirements for issuing =pilot, flight instructor, and ground
instructor= certificates and ratings for persons who have taken
courses approved by the Administrator under other parts of this
chapter.
==============================

The differentiation continues throughout the FAR and general FAA
policy with amazing consistency, from medical certificate requirements
(a CFI doesn't need one unless he's also acting as PIC) to the
requirement to have each certificate available when exercising that
certificate's privileges to the requirement that, in order to teach in
an aircraft, a CFI must have both "A pilot certificate =and= flight
instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating"
(61.195(b)(1).

There may be an FAR that =does= treat the flight instructor
certificate as a pilot certificate, but so far anyway, I haven't seen
one.

(Michael) wrote in message . com...

Further, I can't for the life of me imagine a situation where I would
be comfortable signing off an ICC and being unwilling to sign off a
BFR.


This happens to me sometimes if I do an IPC in the simulator without
also flying in a student's airplane. My sim is certified as a Level 3
FTD and thus legal for an IPC but not for a BFR since it cannot be
used to log landings.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com