Owner's poll

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
. ..

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message

The money for the hangar comes from writing about airplanes.

.....(I take a biannual flight review every two years).

Interesting. You get paid to write about airplanes and aviation, yet you
still don't know the difference between biannual and biennial. What a
country!!


At least he doesn't take his biannual every three years.

1. The make and model.

1974 Piper Cherokee Pathfinder

2. Whether you bought it new or used (if used, a bit of history on
it).

Used, in 2002.

3. The cost to buy it.

$75K. We then invested another $19K in overhauling the engine and
re-doing the interior.

4. The way you financed the purchase.

We sold our Warrior for $40K, put some personal savings along with it,
and financed the rest. (And remember, financing an airplane is not
like financing a car. In fact, it's more like financing a house,
because in general the aircraft appreciates over time. Our loan is for
20 years, and is thus quite affordable.)

5. Your approximate yearly costs for operation, maintenance, and
insurance.

$8K - $15K annually, depending on what goodies are installed, or what
problems are encountered. This includes ALL "aviation-related"
expenses, including such things as hangar, insurance, fuel, monthly
loan payment, if we buy new headphones, or have new in-wing landing
lights installed (which we did in '05.)

6. Your approximate yearly investment in training, licensing, medical
exams, etc. (to keep current as a pilot, as opposed to just the costs
related to a specific aircraft).

Training would be a biennial ($55) every other year, and a medical exam
($100) every other year, times two pilots.

I'm just curious about how much it actually costs to own and fly an
aircraft. I get the impression that it requires either being quite
wealthy or making severe sacrifices and never flying anything better
than a junky tin can.

Note: These expenses keep TWO pilots flying over 100 hour per year,
each. You could cut these expenses significantly (but not in half,
obviously) for just one pilot.

Another thing to note, is that renting an equivalent plane for 200
hours annually would cost ~$20K annually -- so owning a plane makes
financial sense for us.

How do we afford this? It's not always easy.

(a) We live in a modest home, nice, but not in "the" neighborhood where
our peers prefer to sink their savings.

(b) We don't buy new cars. Our newest car is 6 years old. My
motorcycle is 20 years old.

(c) We don't golf, go boating, or have any other expensive habits.
Mary is a spend-thrift (compared to most of the wives in our group of
friends), and personally I would be quite happy to own two pairs of
shoes. (Which, by the way, is all I do own.)

(d) We don't carry unnecessary debt. Credit cards are paid off
monthly, and we never borrow money to buy depreciating assets. For
example, if we can't pay cash for a car, we don't buy it.

(e) Our kids both work at the hotel, and earn everything they've got.
We don't just buy them every whiz-bang new electronic gizmo, they earn
them -- and birthdays and Christmas are quite modest affairs, by
comparison to some of their friends.

It's all about making choices. Mary and I make a very modest income,
eat most meals at home, don't go out much, and aren't into blowing
scads of money on ocean cruises or trips to Europe -- but we love to
fly. Flying is really our only extravagance -- we've truly built our
lives around it -- and we love it that way.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

(b) We don't buy new cars. Our newest car is 6 years old. My
motorcycle is 20 years old.

I just sold my 25 year old motorcycle for the same price I paid for it 12
years ago ($100). I just bought a 'new' 13 year old bike.

The last new vehicle I bought was in 1986. I still have it.

Ooo! Fun!

Mxsmanic wrote:
If you own your own aircraft, could you discuss:

1. The make and model.

1946 Piper PA-12 "Super Cruiser"

2. Whether you bought it new or used (if used, a bit of history on
it).

Used and in pieces. The airplane spent 18 years in pieces in a barn.

3. The cost to buy it.

It cost $30K, split 3 ways - I bought the airplane with two partners.
This included the cost of ground up restoration, plus new radios and
GPS.

4. The way you financed the purchase.

Used a bonus I got when I switched jobs (this was the 90s ).

5. Your approximate yearly costs for operation, maintenance, and
insurance.

All costs are divided by 3. Insurance $1000 per/year, hangar
$300/month, maintenance etc. $1000-3000 per year depending on what
needs to be done in the annual. We had wings recovered once and
fuselage repainted once.

6. Your approximate yearly investment in training, licensing, medical
exams, etc. (to keep current as a pilot, as opposed to just the costs
related to a specific aircraft).

$100 for medical every two years. Flight review every two years- often
just price of lunch as we have some CFIs in our EAA chapter. Last one
cost me $80 for a CFI - she was really excited to fly in a tail
dragger.

I'm just curious about how much it actually costs to own and fly an
aircraft. I get the impression that it requires either being quite
wealthy or making severe sacrifices and never flying anything better
than a junky tin can.

I fly about 30 to 40 hours per year. The cost for turns out to be
$50/$60 per hour with fuel (we can use car gas if needed). Which is
cheaper than renting and I get to fly a much cooler airplane whenever I
feel like.

;-)

....richie

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:39:00 GMT, "Steve Foley"
wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

(b) We don't buy new cars. Our newest car is 6 years old. My
motorcycle is 20 years old.

I just sold my 25 year old motorcycle for the same price I paid for it 12
years ago ($100). I just bought a 'new' 13 year old bike.

The last new vehicle I bought was in 1986. I still have it.

I've never purchased a new car (been driving since 1979). Paid
cash for all of my (used) cars (still own three, model years; 1968,
1974 & 1981).

Paid cash for my Cessna 170B 4+ years ago, sold it for more than
I paid for it last summer. Paid cash for my Cessna 180 shortly
afterwards.

I don't go out to eat, don't go to the movies, no fancy vacations, and
I don't buy "stuff" other folks tend to buy (a brand new $45K pickup
truck every other year, bikes, boats, jet-skis, trailers, campers,
giant screen TVs, high dollar home entertainment stuff, etc.).
Credit card balance = $0

I'm not wealthy, I just know how to save money!

Bela P. Havasreti

The last new vehicle I bought was in 1986. I still have it.

I forgot to mention: One HUGE money-savings for us is the fact that we
are able to use regular unleaded car gas in our airplane.

At last count (our tank has a gauge) we have pumped over 7500 gallons
through our fuel truck ("The Mighty Grape" -- see it he
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/fuel_truck.htm ), making the purchase of
that truck the single best investment I've made in the 21st century...
;-)

With the price differential ranging from $1 to $2 per gallon cheaper
than avgas, the mogas STC has truly made flying more affordable for us.
It saves over $15 per hour in flight expenses, and I wouldn't even
consider buying a plane that didn't have the mogas STC.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

If you own your own aircraft, could you discuss:

1. The make and model.

1966 Piper Cherokee 180

2. Whether you bought it new or used (if used, a bit of history on
it).

Used in 2000.

3. The cost to buy it.

30 AMU

4. The way you financed the purchase.

22 AMU insurance settlement from my previous airplane plus a bank loan.

5. Your approximate yearly costs for operation, maintenance, and
insurance.

Annual $1200
Insurance $800
Hangar $160 per month
Engine replacement last year $15,000. Should last us 10 to 15 years.
10 gallons of fuel per hour. Usually manage to find it under $3.50 per
gallon.

6. Your approximate yearly investment in training, licensing, medical
exams, etc. (to keep current as a pilot, as opposed to just the costs
related to a specific aircraft).

Medical and flight review every 2 years. $80 each.

I'm just curious about how much it actually costs to own and fly an
aircraft. I get the impression that it requires either being quite
wealthy or making severe sacrifices and never flying anything better
than a junky tin can.

Flying is flying. Better to have flown a junky tin can than not to have
flown at all. The sky is not impressed by what you own. Anything given
up to fly is not a sacrifice. Hours in the air given up for something
else is a sacrifice.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message


At least he doesn't take his biannual every three years.

Could be in trouble if he ever has a position requiring a Class I medical.

Is the Ercoupe so small that a 150 is seen as a bigger plane? I'm not a big
guy but the 150's I have flown were very cosy 2-up.


"Greg B" wrote in message
...
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
If you own your own aircraft, could you discuss:

1. The make and model.

1946 Ercoupe 415-C

2. Whether you bought it new or used (if used, a bit of history on
it).

Bought it used in 2002. The plane was first sold to a someone in Oklahoma
City on March 5, 1946. From there, it went to Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska
and Iowa (when I bought it). I took it from Iowa to Texas, back to Iowa
and now in Minnesota. I got the FAA CD-ROM a couple weeks ago and looked
through its entire history. IMHO, worth ordering for your plane

3. The cost to buy it.

I paid $9,000

4. The way you financed the purchase.

Cash

5. Your approximate yearly costs for operation, maintenance, and
insurance.

Varied from $200 to $1,000 for annual inspections and maintenance per
year. Also approximately $800 for insurance per year. Hangar rent ranged
from $400 to $1,000/year depending on where it was hangared. So the fixed
annual fees ranged from $1,400 to $2,800 per year.

6. Your approximate yearly investment in training, licensing, medical
exams, etc. (to keep current as a pilot, as opposed to just the costs
related to a specific aircraft).

Biennial flight review and medical is about $150 every 2 years. A medical
($100 of it) isn't required to fly as Sport Pilot*.

I'm just curious about how much it actually costs to own and fly an
aircraft. I get the impression that it requires either being quite
wealthy or making severe sacrifices and never flying anything better
than a junky tin can.

This year, the total annual/maintenance, hangar and insurance (fixed
costs) came to around $2,500. I only flew about 25 hours during the year
(between annual/maintenance) so it was $100/hour to fly, not counting the
fuel and oil costs per hour (approx. $25/hour). If I had flown 100 hours
during the year, it would have been ~$50/hour (total) to fly.

This is the reason why my aircraft sale is pending. Paid $9,000 for it 4
years ago, flew it over 100 hours and selling (pending) it for $16,000.
I'm getting most (all?) of the money that I have put into it for
maintenance and annuals, etc., so overall, it WAS cheap to fly!

*I can fly my Ercoupe under Sport Pilot rules; no medical required but
have renewed my medical anyways because I like to be able to (or have the
option to) fly at night or to fly something bigger like a C-150.

-Greg B.

"Barney Rubble" wrote in message
...
Is the Ercoupe so small that a 150 is seen as a bigger plane? I'm not a
big guy but the 150's I have flown were very cosy 2-up.


"Greg B" wrote in message
...
*I can fly my Ercoupe under Sport Pilot rules; no medical required but
have renewed my medical anyways because I like to be able to (or have the
option to) fly at night or to fly something bigger like a C-150.

The Ercoupe does have more room (especially leg-room!) once inside than a
C150. I just called the 150 bigger in the sense that it weighs more; it's
not LSA, compared to my 'Coupe.

Direct hourly cost is 5 gallons/hour of autogas, approximately $10-15, LL100
would be close to $20/hour.

-Greg B.