#1 Piston Fighter was British

In article , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 6/30/03 7:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time

ir enough. Now jus take the P-51 out of the mix as though it never existed
and see what you end up with.

Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

Gavin Bailey

-

LIke what? The war actually began on D-Day. Everythig before that was a long
list of trivial attacks like Dieppe that mostly failed.

Art, you can be a moronic old ******* sometimes.

My father was 35 years old when war broke out, and as he was a member of
the Territorial Army, was called up immediately. He was heavily involved
in the ack-ack organisation in Essex, a part of the world with which you
are familiar, right from the very start. The Battle of Britain was
fought right over his home.
He was posted to North Africa in 1942 as part of the Allied (that means
the British were there as well as the Americans) invasion force. He left
behind a pregnant wife, who gave birth to a premature baby at about the
time he was landing as part of Operation Torch. The baby died after 3
days, and my mother never really got over it. He also left behind a two-
year-old daughter. He spent the next 3 years as a REME officer
supporting the efforts and sacrifices of front-line troops, and only
came home some time after VE Day.

So don't give me that egotistical crap about "the war only started on D-
Day". You, and he, were only small cogs in a vast machine.

Dad never liked Americans, and sometimes I can see why.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: Peter Twydell
Date: 6/30/03 1:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



So don't give me that egotistical crap about "the war only started on D-
Day". You, and he, were only small cogs in a vast machine.


I meant to say the war in Western Euroe only started on D-day. Sorry I left
that out.
But vast machines are made up of small cogs. And better to have served, then
never to have served at all. Even as a small cog which I certainly was.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
I meant to say the war in Western Euroe only started on D-day. Sorry I
left
that out.
But vast machines are made up of small cogs. And better to have served,
then
never to have served at all. Even as a small cog which I certainly was.

While not decrying your military service, you come across as a bigoted
uniformed egotistical fool.
I hope I am wrong, but your stupid statements seem to prove me to be right.
(and before you start on me, I served in combat as an Infantryman in SVN.
Another war that didn't start only when the Americans got there)

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: Peter Twydell
Date: 6/30/03 1:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:



So don't give me that egotistical crap about "the war only started on D-
Day". You, and he, were only small cogs in a vast machine.


I meant to say the war in Western Euroe only started on D-day. Sorry I left
that out.
But vast machines are made up of small cogs. And better to have served, then
never to have served at all. Even as a small cog which I certainly was.

Of course, what Art really means, based upon past exchanges, is that
he has a whole hierarchy of "cogs", and he invariably places his cog
above most others. He has said his ground crews had no idea of what
war was, that the folks who transported his armaments and fuel to his
base similarly had no idea, and that folks who entered the service,
served honorably, did what they were ordered to do (often despite
their own personal wishes) but never entered into aerial combat over
Europe were hardly even deserving of the title of "veteran", etc. he
apparently has a lot of missing teeth on that gear he keeps referring
to.

Brooks


Arthur Kramer

Peter Twydell wrote in message ...
In article , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: (The Revolution Will Not Be Televised)
Date: 6/30/03 7:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time

ir enough. Now jus take the P-51 out of the mix as though it never existed
and see what you end up with.

Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

Gavin Bailey

-

LIke what? The war actually began on D-Day. Everythig before that was a long
list of trivial attacks like Dieppe that mostly failed.

Art, you can be a moronic old ******* sometimes.

My father was 35 years old when war broke out, and as he was a member of
the Territorial Army, was called up immediately. He was heavily involved
in the ack-ack organisation in Essex, a part of the world with which you
are familiar, right from the very start. The Battle of Britain was
fought right over his home.
He was posted to North Africa in 1942 as part of the Allied (that means
the British were there as well as the Americans) invasion force. He left
behind a pregnant wife, who gave birth to a premature baby at about the
time he was landing as part of Operation Torch. The baby died after 3
days, and my mother never really got over it. He also left behind a two-
year-old daughter. He spent the next 3 years as a REME officer
supporting the efforts and sacrifices of front-line troops, and only
came home some time after VE Day.

So don't give me that egotistical crap about "the war only started on D-
Day". You, and he, were only small cogs in a vast machine.

Dad never liked Americans, and sometimes I can see why.

Dear God, please do not judge us all on the basis of the mumblings of
folks like Art, the Tarvernaut, and those of similar ilk. We all have
our share of bad apples.

Brooks

In article , Kevin
Brooks writes
Peter Twydell wrote in message news:gs0Tf8A6MKA$EwjF
...
snip outrage

Dad never liked Americans, and sometimes I can see why.

Dear God, please do not judge us all on the basis of the mumblings of
folks like Art, the Tarvernaut, and those of similar ilk. We all have
our share of bad apples.


I did say "sometimes".

I worked with Americans (and Texans) for many years, and found the vast
majority to be kind and friendly people. Just like every other
nationality I have known. As you said, every country has its share of
stupid, ignorant and downright irritating people (God save us from those
who are all three), so I don't judge whole nations on the evidence of a
few individuals.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

What happened before the (extended-range) Mustang showed up? Well, the
German air force was shooting down so many B-17s and B-24s that it
looked possible that the 8th Air Force would have to give up
deep-penetration daylight raids into Germany, to the huge benefit of
Albert Speer and the German war effort.

all the best -- Dan Ford (email: info AT danford.net)

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

Subject: #1 Piston Fighter was British
From: Cub Driver
Date: 6/30/03 2:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

What happened before the (extended-range) Mustang showed up? Well, the
German air force was shooting down so many B-17s and B-24s that it
looked possible that the 8th Air Force would have to give up
deep-penetration daylight raids into Germany, to the huge benefit of
Albert Speer and the German war effort.

all the best -- Dan Ford (email: info AT danford.net)

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub


You tell 'em Danny boy. (sigh)


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Look at what happened before it showed up. There was more going on
than just the Mustang.

What happened before the (extended-range) Mustang showed up? Well, the
German air force was shooting down so many B-17s and B-24s that it
looked possible that the 8th Air Force would have to give up
deep-penetration daylight raids into Germany, to the huge benefit of
Albert Speer and the German war effort.


Problem with this analysis is that the attrition of the Luftwaffe had
already got to the back side of the curve prior to the P-51's introduction.
The P-38, for example, did a lot of damage, and was capable of deep escort.

--
--
Dennis Jensen
Author of "The Flying Pigs"
http://www.ebooks-online.com/ebooks/search.asp
NOW ONLINE

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 09:25:09 +0800, "Dennis"
wrote:

What happened before the (extended-range) Mustang showed up? Well, the
German air force was shooting down so many B-17s and B-24s that it
looked possible that the 8th Air Force would have to give up
deep-penetration daylight raids into Germany, to the huge benefit of
Albert Speer and the German war effort.

Problem with this analysis is that the attrition of the Luftwaffe had
already got to the back side of the curve prior to the P-51's introduction.
The P-38, for example, did a lot of damage, and was capable of deep escort.

Precisely. On balance the P-51 might have been better, or more
reliable (even then it had it's share of teething problems), but the
problem was recognised and was being addressed before it showed up.

Gavin Bailey

--

"...this level of misinformation suggests some Americans may be
avoiding having an experience of cognitive dissonance."
- 'Poll shows errors in beliefs on Iraq, 9/11'
The Charlotte Observer, 20th June 2003