Plane "sharing" experience?

In article ,
" wrote:

Four people in a Cherokee 140? Are you serious?

a older 140 can have the useful load to carry four people,
especially when you start with the fuel at the tabs. I've even
seen older 140s that have more useful load than a warrior.
Steve Foley had (has?) one with 872lb useful load.

And how many JATO bottles are used during this takeoff?

Apparently you haven't flown a 140.

My 140 (and Steve's) require the same take-off roll as a warrior II.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:03:29 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Four people in a Cherokee 140? Are you serious?

Is this a flight school for ants?

My aunts are pretty light.... :-)

Ron Wanttaja

On Dec 16, 2:03 pm, " wrote:
On Dec 16, 2:42 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:



Suggestions as to appropriate "training" aircraft (beyond the Cessna 150 /
172) would also be appreciated.

A Cherokee 140 is an excellent and inexpensive trainer that can (in a
pinch) carry four people. It also has the advantage of having the
wing on the proper side of the fuselage...

;-)

Additionally, would it be wise to contract a single CFI to do our
instruction? At approximately 50 hours per pupil, they could log a lot of
time. Maybe we could get a small discount?

Sounds like a good idea -- if you can keep everyone in line and on
schedule.

If you can keep a bunch of student pilots focused and organized,
you've got two great opportunities to save money. In my experience,
however, organizing pilots is a lot like herding cats, so you'll have
your work cut out for you...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Four people in a Cherokee 140? Are you serious?

Is this a flight school for ants?

A Cherokee 140 will take off at full gross (2150 lbs) and clear a 50'
obstacle in 1800' of paved runway. I've had mine loaded with four
people at full gross weight and it flies just perfectly fine.

Just make sure they aren't all 250+lb lardasses.

My Cherokee 140 has a useful load of 810 pounds.
And BTW, it may be going up for sale again soon so I might be able to
resume my dream of building an RV-7.
It's a nice one, with new paint and interior, a new PM3000 stereo
intercom system, and a GPS196.

A good pic of it taken at Oshkosh 2007 is located at:
http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/100122.html

Jay Honeck writes:
Additionally, would it be wise to contract a single CFI to do our
instruction? At approximately 50 hours per pupil, they could log a lot of
time. Maybe we could get a small discount?

Sounds like a good idea -- if you can keep everyone in line and on
schedule.

Even better -- if you have more than one student in the plane at a
time you may also be able to save some money. One flies, the other
observes and learns from the other's mistakes, then trade. This will
probably reduce the total number of hours at the controls required to
learn.

The hard part is getting folks to agree to a common schedule.

Chris

wrote:

Does anybody out there have any experience with such a scheme? Is this
really practical? Any solid info about legal requirements, insurance
issues, maintenance and storage costs, or tips for purchasing / selling a
plane would be appreciated.


It might be difficult to get insurance for an airplane
that does not have a qualified pilot named on the policy.

Additionally, would it be wise to contract a single CFI to do our
instruction? At approximately 50 hours per pupil, they could log a lot of
time. Maybe we could get a small discount?


It might work out better for you all to buy a plane then lease
it back to the flight school so that it could be insured on
their policy... with their flight instructors so you get
a better rate.

In the end though, I'm not convinced you'll end up any better
off than if you just rent the airplane. You can spend a lot
of time running all the numbers but in the end... remember that
when you own the airplane you are responsible for repairs,
maintenance and inspections. If I was in flight training I'd
want to concentrate only on that and not about A/C ownership.

kontiki wrote in
:

wrote:

Does anybody out there have any experience with such a scheme? Is
this really practical? Any solid info about legal requirements,
insurance issues, maintenance and storage costs, or tips for
purchasing / selling a plane would be appreciated.


It might be difficult to get insurance for an airplane
that does not have a qualified pilot named on the policy.

Additionally, would it be wise to contract a single CFI to do our
instruction? At approximately 50 hours per pupil, they could log a
lot of time. Maybe we could get a small discount?


It might work out better for you all to buy a plane then lease
it back to the flight school so that it could be insured on
their policy... with their flight instructors so you get
a better rate.

In the end though, I'm not convinced you'll end up any better
off than if you just rent the airplane. You can spend a lot
of time running all the numbers but in the end... remember that
when you own the airplane you are responsible for repairs,
maintenance and inspections. If I was in flight training I'd
want to concentrate only on that and not about A/C ownership.


I know some guys who did just this, but they were all going right
through and getting all their ratings ( excluding multi) on the one
airplane. It worked out well for them and they figured they saved a
fortune.



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
I know some guys who did just this, but they were all going right
through and getting all their ratings ( excluding multi) on the one
airplane. It worked out well for them and they figured they saved a
fortune.

That could work once they have their private pilot tickets. Insurance
companies do an antler dance when you mention *student pilot*
solos...insurance on a plane owned by a group of people hoping to get
their *private pilot* licenses in it would likely be very high *if* they
could find a company to do it.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 08:11:49 -0700, Shirl
wrote:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
I know some guys who did just this, but they were all going right
through and getting all their ratings ( excluding multi) on the one
airplane. It worked out well for them and they figured they saved a
fortune.

That could work once they have their private pilot tickets. Insurance
companies do an antler dance when you mention *student pilot*
solos...insurance on a plane owned by a group of people hoping to get
their *private pilot* licenses in it would likely be very high *if* they
could find a company to do it.

I know things have changed somewhat, but three of us (all students)
purchased a Cherokee 180. IIRC the insurrance was around $1200 a year.
No problem in the simple aircraft.

Roger (K8RI)

wrote in message
...
I'm currently in "ground school" and hope to begin my actual flight
instruction soon. I will need to keep a close eye on the costs involved.

Some classmates are tossing around the idea of us purchasing a plane as a
group, doing our training, and then selling the plane. When our training
s
completed, we would either sell to a "third party" buyer or allow some
group
members who want to keep and share the plane to "buy back" shares from
other
members at a discount.

Does anybody out there have any experience with such a scheme? Is this
really practical? Any solid info about legal requirements, insurance
issues, maintenance and storage costs, or tips for purchasing / selling a
plane would be appreciated.

It works if you have the right people. My dad always had partners...

Talk to an attorney about setting up a corperation to actually own it and
defining how to dissolve it when you are done, or someone decides to bail,
or someone doesn't hold up their end.

Expect that a minority of the people involved will do most of the work and
most of the flying.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:14:47 -0500, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com wrote:

It works if you have the right people. My dad always had partners...

That really is _the_ rub! I knew my partner for years before we
bought the airplane. Both of us were partners in other businesses, so
we had training wheels.

The other folks involved are more important than the actual airplane.


Talk to an attorney about setting up a corperation to actually own it and
defining how to dissolve it when you are done, or someone decides to bail,
or someone doesn't hold up their end.

Right. A good partnership is when you sit down and figure out written
outcomes ahead of time for all the bad stuff. Somebody wants out,
somebody can't pay, the others want one person out, the plane needs a
$20,000 uninsured repair...

If you can't agree NOW on how you address such situations, now is the
time to not form the partnership.