An aeroplane that can stand still in air

"robert arndt" wrote...

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Virtually ANY high-performance airplane can "stand still in air" for a brief
instant -- just pull it up into the vertical and reduce the power. It will
eventually stop, just prior to a brief tail slide and eventual "falling leaf"
maneuver. I've done it many times in the A-4 and A-6, and once in an F/A-18D.

OTOH, I doubt there are any airplanes out there beyond the VTOL/STOOL crowd that
can come to a controlled, sustained stop in mid air. I suspect that those doing
"difficult maneuvers" in the horizontal plane maintain at least some forward
speed throughout. Otherwise, there would be no control authority.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:gWEKb.302034$_M.1722533@attbi_s54...
"robert arndt" wrote...

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Virtually ANY high-performance airplane can "stand still in air" for a
brief
instant -- just pull it up into the vertical and reduce the power. It
will
eventually stop, just prior to a brief tail slide and eventual "falling
leaf"
maneuver. I've done it many times in the A-4 and A-6, and once in an
F/A-18D.


AKA a stall turn

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote...

-- just pull it up into the vertical and reduce the power. It will
eventually stop, just prior to a brief tail slide and eventual "falling leaf"
maneuver.

AKA a stall turn

OK. First time I've heard it called that.

Looking at the fly-imaa.org article you cited, "stall turn" is another name for
a hammerhead stall (a term with which I'm familiar). Note that in a hammerhead,
the airplane should NOT go to 0 forward airspeed -- it needs airspeed to
maintain controllability. To wit, " The second thing that can cause a flop
over, especially in trainers or slow planes, is not enough speed when you put in
the rudder." (from that article). So, the airplane does NOT "stand still in
air" per the OP's question. It only appears to stand still. Admittedly, some
aerobats do tail-slide maneuvers, during which the airplane will briefly pass
through 0 airspeed.

robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

"Ian" wrote in message ...
robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

Hey moron, use your brain. Look at the title of the thread and first
sentence of the original poster's question!
Keith isn't saying that the Su-30 can't stop in midair, he's saying no
non-VSTOL/VTOL aircraft can stop in midair. Read his reply for
confirmation.
Yet amazingly both the Su-35 and Su-37 have DEMONSTRATED a dead stop
(no forward airspeed at all) in midair during highly complex manouvers
that only their aircraft can perform.
The F/A-18 might have a brief pause trying to emulate that manouver,
but it cannot dead stop like the Su-35 and TVC Su-37.
You want me to mail you the video?

Rob

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Ian" wrote in message
...
robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

Hey moron, use your brain. Look at the title of the thread and first
sentence of the original poster's question!
Keith isn't saying that the Su-30 can't stop in midair, he's saying no
non-VSTOL/VTOL aircraft can stop in midair. Read his reply for
confirmation.
Yet amazingly both the Su-35 and Su-37 have DEMONSTRATED a dead stop
(no forward airspeed at all) in midair during highly complex manouvers
that only their aircraft can perform.
The F/A-18 might have a brief pause trying to emulate that manouver,
but it cannot dead stop like the Su-35 and TVC Su-37.
You want me to mail you the video?

Rob
No thanks

On 6 Jan 2004 18:19:15 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Ian" wrote in message ...
robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

pendent mode
Keith was probably right - the original question was SU-30 related, and
you've proved him wrong quoting the SU-35 and Su-37????

/pendent mode

Hey moron, use your brain. Look at the title of the thread and first
sentence of the original poster's question!
Keith isn't saying that the Su-30 can't stop in midair, he's saying no
non-VSTOL/VTOL aircraft can stop in midair. Read his reply for
confirmation.
Yet amazingly both the Su-35 and Su-37 have DEMONSTRATED a dead stop
(no forward airspeed at all) in midair during highly complex manouvers
that only their aircraft can perform.
The F/A-18 might have a brief pause trying to emulate that manouver,
but it cannot dead stop like the Su-35 and TVC Su-37.
You want me to mail you the video?

Rob

Neither the Su-35 or the SU-37 can "stop" while airborne. Get that through
your thick skull.

Al Minyard

On 6 Jan 2004 10:54:16 -0800, (robert arndt) wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Chandresh Prakash" wrote in message
om...
Hi,
Is there an aeroplane that can stand still in mid-air ?

Harrier/AV8

I used to think that SU - 30 could do it. Is that true ?

No

Keith

As usual, Keith tries to speak as an authority and is dead wrong as
usual. I have a demonstrator video of a Su-35 stopped in mid-air
(briefly) during a difficult manouver and there are plenty of others
who have seen the Su-37 do it too.

Rob

You are, as usual, full of it. The Su cannot "stop" in mid- air for more
than a fraction of a second.

Al Minyard

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
You are, as usual, full of it. The Su cannot "stop" in mid- air for more
than a fraction of a second.

The Su-37 can (or did, don't believe the aircraft is in existence anymore),
I've seen it do it with my own eyes. It held there at about 40 degrees AOA,
with it's vectored thrust pointing right down. Dead steady hover.

Si

Simon Robbins wrote:

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
.. .


You are, as usual, full of it. The Su cannot "stop" in mid- air for more
than a fraction of a second.



The Su-37 can (or did, don't believe the aircraft is in existence anymore),
I've seen it do it with my own eyes. It held there at about 40 degrees AOA,
with it's vectored thrust pointing right down. Dead steady hover.

Si




Obviously, any a/c with a t/w ratio of unity or better can, in theory,
hover. But how would it maintain attitude for more than just a moment?
Wouldn't that requre a) air moving over control surfaces, b) reaction
controls (as on the NF104), or c) some really intuitive manipulation of
the thrust nozzles? And how could it hover at anything less than 90
degrees AOA? Wouldn't, to hover, CG have to be right over CT, if
there's no forward momentum? It's not like a jet can "hang on the prop."

Not flaming, just wondering...