EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and
welfare.

"Free" is most definitely a matter of perspective, isn't it?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
country.

We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.

-cwk.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

With jobs available at
higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
and/or crime as their primary means of employment.


We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating welfare.

Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating
welfare.


Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.


Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the results
of legislation enacted by Democrats.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the
results of legislation enacted by Democrats.

The only problem with that is the legislation (or implementation) never goes
far enough.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

"John T" wrote in message
m...
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the
results of legislation enacted by Democrats.

The only problem with that is the legislation (or implementation) never
goes far enough.


Given that most such legislation is unconstitutional, it actually goes too
far.

C Kingsbury wrote:

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.

It's less about laziness than the fact that it costs a lot more to live
a basic lifestyle in the US than you can make on minimum wage. On the other
hand, if you don't mind living in the same squalid conditions you were
accustomed to in the country you came from then its like getting a nice raise.
It's not uncommon for multiple illegal immigrant families to live in a small
single family home. Also, your kids can get a better education, food stamps
and health care so its a no brainer. Some places you can even vote too so
you can keep the bennies coming.

It's not uncommon for multiple illegal immigrant families to live in a small
single family home. Most American's don't find that living arrangement acceptable
for the long term.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .

If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
they
continue to come here?

To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
welfare.


The solution to that is obvious. Eliminate "free" health care and
welfare.

Does it not strike you as odd that many of those thought to be coming to the
United States for "free" health care and welfare come from socialist
countries that already supposedly provide those things?

Truly, the xenophobia in this country is our greatest embarrassment.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:02:04 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
link.net...

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
we
let more in, don't you think?


If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?

In one word. *Hope*

To many of the impoverished countries we are the source of hope. It
is part of our history and heritage. Remember how the country was
built and why we were given the Statue of Liberty. Many are escaping
a poverty that makes much of the poverty in this country look like
easy living.

Rarely does any country have a realistic view of other countries and
conversely few if any have a realistic view of any specific country.

Many European countries think of the US as if it were the "Wild West"
with all the people owning and carrying guns and lead flying right and
left. Many think of us as barbaric while a high percentage of us view
the European continent in the same light.

After all they had active terrorism long before we did... Neglecting
The bombings and assassinations on Wall Street and in the Capitol in
the 1800s, or the one room school in Michigan that was blown up in the
20s or 30s, or Oklahoma city...

It's just in recent years we've see a lot more active terrorism in
Europe than here so when it does happen here we have an over reaction.

The same thing that makes us a target for some, makes us a hope for
the future by others.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


assassinations

"Roger" wrote in message
...

If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?


In one word. *Hope*


I don't think they can live on *Hope*.