Flying Slow

It would seem to me, that as in anything we wish to be great at, practicing
ANY aspect of flying that you normally don't encounter or do regularly improves
your overall knowledge and skills.
"Proficient" and "Expert" are certainly not the same.

Besides "learning to fly", I play guitar and other instruments.
To become better at playing guitar, I often practice things that aren't
really played in songs when I play a gig. What it does is make me better
at many other things - "mastering" the guitar may be impossible to
a part-time guitar player like me, but pushing myself to do things I might
not has certainly helped me play better.

Whether it is physical or mental, that sort of discipline is, in my opinion, an
outstanding trait and shows a true desire to be as good as you can be.

Now, maybe there are those who don't want tor need to be that good, but "need"
is something you never really know about.

Anectodally, Israeli AF pilots learn about systems and engineering of their jets and planes
to better understand the entire aspect of flying. In a marginally humerous story (from
"Raid on the Sun"), when the Israeli's were learning the F-16 at Hill AFB in Ogen Utah,
they asled so many engineering and systems questions, some suspected them of attempted
espionage, when in fact they were literally just doing things the "way they learned to".
This helped them later modify and affect the Falcons for their raid on the Iraqi nuclear plant.
Interestingly enough, many of their question could not be answered by the USAF pilots and
trainers, and ended up learning a lot of important aspects of the F-16 from the Israelis.
The analogy? Is there such a things as "over preparation"?
Were they better pilots for this. I'd argue yes.

And, in the end, when you're in a commercial plane or in another situation where your
life is in someone else's hands, would you want that pilot to be "proficient", or possibly
"over qualified".

That's my 2 cents . . .

Now I expect people (as usual) to poke holes in everyrthing I wrote, according to the unwritten
Newsgroup laws that exist somewhere. and somehow, someone is going to take it personally
and begin to flame me unconditionally, whereby someone will rise up in my defense and create
a 3-month long posting under this Subject that, in the end, results in life-long animosity between
otherwise respectable people who have a lot in common - ha ha!

I've heard of CFI's who cannot identify the magnetos. That's just sad.

mike regish

"Gary G" wrote in message
...

Anectodally, Israeli AF pilots learn about systems and engineering of
their jets and planes
to better understand the entire aspect of flying. In a marginally humerous
story (from
"Raid on the Sun"), when the Israeli's were learning the F-16 at Hill AFB
in Ogen Utah,
they asled so many engineering and systems questions, some suspected them
of attempted
espionage, when in fact they were literally just doing things the "way
they learned to".
This helped them later modify and affect the Falcons for their raid on the
Iraqi nuclear plant.
Interestingly enough, many of their question could not be answered by the
USAF pilots and
trainers, and ended up learning a lot of important aspects of the F-16
from the Israelis.
The analogy? Is there such a things as "over preparation"?
Were they better pilots for this. I'd argue yes.

I often like to put the plane into a sharp heawind and slow it to MCA.
If the wind is right, you can get the plan to fly backward. That's
right, negative ground speed.

What is fun is using that same set of conditions, and landing with
virtually zero ground roll. I've won more than a few beers that I could
land and stop short within the wingspan of the airplane (C150-172).
Selway Kid

On 14 Jan 2005 21:31:49 -0800, wrote:

What is fun is using that same set of conditions, and landing with
virtually zero ground roll. I've won more than a few beers that I could
land and stop short within the wingspan of the airplane (C150-172).
Selway Kid


Care to elaborate? I've not pushed that far into the envelop,
especially close to the ground, and would think a 150 wouldn't have
enough power to hang on the prop without a high descent rate.

I did get to be in the plane (J-3) once with one of the people I most
respect in aviation (and know personally) where from 2000 feet, he
entered a slip, asked me where I wanted the plane, and flew - in the
slip, and I swear below stall speed - all the way to the ground and
put the plane right on the mark I asked for. It was one of the most
amazing demonstrations of flying I'd ever seen....Even better than his
no hands landings.

I only offer the story thinking perhaps you're technique is somewhat
similar.

TIA for any response.
z

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On 14 Jan 2005 21:31:49 -0800, wrote:

What is fun is using that same set of conditions, and landing with
virtually zero ground roll. I've won more than a few beers that I could
land and stop short within the wingspan of the airplane (C150-172).
Selway Kid

Care to elaborate? I've not pushed that far into the envelop,
especially close to the ground, and would think a 150 wouldn't have
enough power to hang on the prop without a high descent rate.


My CFI's done this in my 172 which probably has a power/weight ratio close
to the 150's. It's about the difference between MCA and wind speed. A 172
with two people and no bags can probably stall power-on around 40kts. I
don't know the speed exactly but it is quite slow. If the wind is blowing
30kts you can put it down on the ground at less than 15mph groundspeed. Then
stand on the brakes and turn off at the runway entrance, for a landing roll
of about 100'. With higher windspeeds you could do it in less.

My current instructor is kind of like your friend- thousands of hours in
172s and flies them like he's part bird. It is a beautiful thing to behold.

-cwk.

If the wind is blowing
30kts you can put it down on the ground at less than 15mph groundspeed.

Ever slower/shorter with the doors open. It is fun to backup traffic on final
with both doors open as speed brakes. Both front seaters need to coordinate the
door 'extension' angle to balance the lateral drag.
VL

Hmmm...

I cam confirm, today, 2500 ft, OAT was -10C, pwr on, 20 deg
flap, stall was just under 40knts indicated.

Tanks (stnd) were full 1/2 hr before, I was alone (155lbs)

Was practising slow flight figure eight's with the stall horn
blaring.

Found myself in "reverse control" region...

Ever try that?

Dave


On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:07:20 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
wrote:

"zatatime" wrote in message
.. .
On 14 Jan 2005 21:31:49 -0800, wrote:

What is fun is using that same set of conditions, and landing with
virtually zero ground roll. I've won more than a few beers that I could
land and stop short within the wingspan of the airplane (C150-172).
Selway Kid

Care to elaborate? I've not pushed that far into the envelop,
especially close to the ground, and would think a 150 wouldn't have
enough power to hang on the prop without a high descent rate.


My CFI's done this in my 172 which probably has a power/weight ratio close
to the 150's. It's about the difference between MCA and wind speed. A 172
with two people and no bags can probably stall power-on around 40kts. I
don't know the speed exactly but it is quite slow. If the wind is blowing
30kts you can put it down on the ground at less than 15mph groundspeed. Then
stand on the brakes and turn off at the runway entrance, for a landing roll
of about 100'. With higher windspeeds you could do it in less.

My current instructor is kind of like your friend- thousands of hours in
172s and flies them like he's part bird. It is a beautiful thing to behold.

-cwk.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:07:20 GMT, "Colin W Kingsbury"
wrote:

My current instructor is kind of like your friend- thousands of hours in
172s and flies them like he's part bird. It is a beautiful thing to behold.


Agreed. Having someone like that to watch, is a great experience.

z

Z
Think about it....the airplane cares not about the wind...only how fast
its going thru the air! If you have the aircraft slowed to say 40 IAS
regardless of how you arrived at that steady speed, and you have a 40kt
wind blowing, you can literally hover over one spot. If you continue to
descend using power for your altitude control, you should be able to
maneuver the aircraft to the desired touchdown spot, reduce the power
and touchdown with no forward roll or drama.
How else can you make a really REALLY short field landing unless a wind
is blowing?
I enjoy flying a 180 slip to a touchdown on a spot from abeam in the
pattern. Lots of fun and good practice. I get a lot of satisfaction
doing it in a Stearman in particular.
I've won a lot of wagers doing the no hands landings usually in the
C-172 with judicious use of power and trim for pitch, and of course
rudder for directional. That too is rather simple once you have been in
the airplane to see how it's done.
Thanks and Cheers
Ol Shy & Bashful