Flying Lessons

Thanks


On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:54:21 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:





Steve wrote:

Point taken, But when you talk about specialized type rating schools
how do you go about finding out where they are and what their
requirements are I couldn't find them that's why i'm posting here. The
only thing I saw was for the buying a new lear or cessna citation.
However 3 million for a plane is not quite in the budget. Or can you
take these classes from these companies without actually flying home
in a new plane.

Try http://www.landings.com and check out flight schools.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

I"m not sure if you are saying "Lear Jet" because that's the jet that
comes to mind or if you like the Lear better than other jets. However,
there are several schools out there that have programs that get you
some jet time. All ATP is one example. For $43,994.50 you go all the
way from where you are today to having some jet time. However, if you
plan to earn back your money flying jets, it could take quite some
time. You'll likely spend the first 10 years or so of your professional
life teaching in single engine trainers before you have enough hours to
get hired flying jets.

-Robert

On 20 Sep 2005 08:47:47 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I"m not sure if you are saying "Lear Jet" because that's the jet that
comes to mind or if you like the Lear better than other jets. However,
there are several schools out there that have programs that get you
some jet time. All ATP is one example. For $43,994.50 you go all the
way from where you are today to having some jet time. However, if you
plan to earn back your money flying jets, it could take quite some
time. You'll likely spend the first 10 years or so of your professional
life teaching in single engine trainers before you have enough hours to
get hired flying jets.

-Robert

Not going into it too make money off of it Robert. Just a personal
goal and desire. Thanks for your input

Steve wrote:
I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the
ratings, and if you really want, you could get a job with a regional
and get line-qualified as a copilot (FO) in another year maybe, and
quit. They'll probably want you to pay for your training after that,
but if you've got Learjet kind of money that won't be a problem, and
the insurance companies will take you real seriously.

If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check
couriers, that sort of thing, that don't require such a permanent
commitment, though it's still not going to be a cakewalk. You'll build
hours and get paid almost as much as you might make as an assistant
manager at a hot dog stand.

Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes
500-mile trips go plenty fast, and will cost you a hell of a lot less
in fuel and maintenance, and you can order one new from the factory for
half of what you'd pay for a clapped-out jet, and you can get insured
in one even as a VFR student if you're willing to pay out the nose. Of
course, if you're talking about 1000 mile trips in real weather,
nothing beats a jet, but even the brand-new very-light jets don't all
live up to that, especially when you put a couple butts in the seats.

-cwk.

On 20 Sep 2005 08:50:27 -0700, wrote:


Steve wrote:
I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the
ratings, and if you really want, you could get a job with a regional
and get line-qualified as a copilot (FO) in another year maybe, and
quit. They'll probably want you to pay for your training after that,
but if you've got Learjet kind of money that won't be a problem, and
the insurance companies will take you real seriously.

I'm not that flexible and that route appears to be cumbersome and
under a corporate thumb I don't do well in those types of situations.

If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check
couriers, that sort of thing, that don't require such a permanent
commitment, though it's still not going to be a cakewalk. You'll build
hours and get paid almost as much as you might make as an assistant
manager at a hot dog stand.

Can I go this route without working for someone else. Maybe doing
charity work for something like the "Angel Flight" I saw mentioned
here??


Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes
500-mile trips go plenty fast, and will cost you a hell of a lot less
in fuel and maintenance, and you can order one new from the factory for
half of what you'd pay for a clapped-out jet, and you can get insured
in one even as a VFR student if you're willing to pay out the nose. Of
course, if you're talking about 1000 mile trips in real weather,
nothing beats a jet, but even the brand-new very-light jets don't all
live up to that, especially when you put a couple butts in the seats.

-cwk.

Can I fly one of these planes you mentioned from L.A. to New York in a
fairly resonable amount of time at night or during somewhat unclear
weather.

Steve wrote:
On 20 Sep 2005 08:50:27 -0700, wrote:

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the

I'm not that flexible and that route appears to be cumbersome and
under a corporate thumb I don't do well in those types of situations.

Fair enough, but keep in mind that in that case a large portion of the
corporate thumb exists to keep cocky/inexperienced pilots from bending
airplanes and scaring passengers, or worse.


If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check

Can I go this route without working for someone else. Maybe doing
charity work for something like the "Angel Flight" I saw mentioned
here??

Perhaps, but what you're looking to get is loggable turbojet time, and
the guys loaning their jets to Angel Flight are also supplying the
crews. It's the third-tier charter companies, freight dogs, etc. who
might have need of a cheap and willing SIC and if you hang around the
field and get to know the right people you might find yourself getting
some time here and there.


Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes

Can I fly one of these planes you mentioned from L.A. to New York in a
fairly resonable amount of time at night or during somewhat unclear
weather.

If JFK-LAX is your typical flight, I'd take myself over to NetJets and
buy a fractional share and let somebody else do the driving. That trip
is at least 8 hours flying time (and 1, more likely 2 fuel stops) even
in a Mustang or CitationJet, which is a 12-14 hour day before you hit
the ground in LA. I suspect most guys either take a co-pilot or spread
the flying out over two days. You need to go quite a ways up the food
chain to something like a Hawker 800XP before you can make that trip
non-stop, and until you can do that, American Airlines will get you
there faster even adding in the time to take your shoes off, yadda
yadda.

Where an owner-flown aircraft really shines is in the 300-1500nm trips
where you're going direct and non-stop between two places the airlines
don't go direct. Let's say you're spending the weekend at a beach house
in Maine up near Bangor, and on Monday you want to meet with a client
in Syracuse. If you're lucky you'll leave your house at 6am and be
there by noon on the airlines, who will fly you to Newark or Philly
first. There's not too many flights either so if there's any problems
or delays you may not get there until sometime closer to dinner.

I, on the other hand, arrive at the airport at 7, have some coffee,
preflight, maybe file a flight plan, take off around 8, and arrive a
little after 11 in my fire-breathing Cessna 172 (105 knots on a good
day). In a Cirrus or Lancair you'll get there by 10. The faster the
airplane, the bigger the ranges can get. What is your typical mission?
That will dictate the right plane for you.

Now, your question mentioned weather. Good question. I would not
consider a Columbia with anti-ice to be an all-weather airplane, but
it's pretty good. A turbine engine (something like a Meridian) will buy
you more leeway to climb up and above the weather faster. A very light
jet still isn't all-weather but the range of what it can't handle is
relatively limited. Really bad thunderstorms will ground the airlines
too, but they'll push right through ice that would ruin your day fast.

-cwk.

On 20 Sep 2005 19:08:13 -0700, wrote:

Steve wrote:
On 20 Sep 2005 08:50:27 -0700, wrote:

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the

I'm not that flexible and that route appears to be cumbersome and
under a corporate thumb I don't do well in those types of situations.

Fair enough, but keep in mind that in that case a large portion of the
corporate thumb exists to keep cocky/inexperienced pilots from bending
airplanes and scaring passengers, or worse.


If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check

Can I go this route without working for someone else. Maybe doing
charity work for something like the "Angel Flight" I saw mentioned
here??

Perhaps, but what you're looking to get is loggable turbojet time, and
the guys loaning their jets to Angel Flight are also supplying the
crews. It's the third-tier charter companies, freight dogs, etc. who
might have need of a cheap and willing SIC and if you hang around the
field and get to know the right people you might find yourself getting
some time here and there.

Let me see if I'm clear. What your saying is that if I fly SIC which
I'm gonna assume is second in charge. That I will pick up hours as a
pilot although I'm not actually flying the plane if I'm sitting in the
right seat. That's curious.




Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes

Can I fly one of these planes you mentioned from L.A. to New York in a
fairly resonable amount of time at night or during somewhat unclear
weather.

If JFK-LAX is your typical flight, I'd take myself over to NetJets and
buy a fractional share and let somebody else do the driving. That trip
is at least 8 hours flying time (and 1, more likely 2 fuel stops) even
in a Mustang or CitationJet, which is a 12-14 hour day before you hit
the ground in LA. I suspect most guys either take a co-pilot or spread
the flying out over two days. You need to go quite a ways up the food
chain to something like a Hawker 800XP before you can make that trip
non-stop, and until you can do that, American Airlines will get you
there faster even adding in the time to take your shoes off, yadda
yadda.

Where an owner-flown aircraft really shines is in the 300-1500nm trips
where you're going direct and non-stop between two places the airlines
don't go direct. Let's say you're spending the weekend at a beach house
in Maine up near Bangor, and on Monday you want to meet with a client
in Syracuse. If you're lucky you'll leave your house at 6am and be
there by noon on the airlines, who will fly you to Newark or Philly
first. There's not too many flights either so if there's any problems
or delays you may not get there until sometime closer to dinner.

I, on the other hand, arrive at the airport at 7, have some coffee,
preflight, maybe file a flight plan, take off around 8, and arrive a
little after 11 in my fire-breathing Cessna 172 (105 knots on a good
day). In a Cirrus or Lancair you'll get there by 10. The faster the
airplane, the bigger the ranges can get. What is your typical mission?
That will dictate the right plane for you.

Now, your question mentioned weather. Good question. I would not
consider a Columbia with anti-ice to be an all-weather airplane, but
it's pretty good. A turbine engine (something like a Meridian) will buy
you more leeway to climb up and above the weather faster. A very light
jet still isn't all-weather but the range of what it can't handle is
relatively limited. Really bad thunderstorms will ground the airlines
too, but they'll push right through ice that would ruin your day fast.

-cwk.

Just for comparison:

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a corporate pilot. I spend $200 to
fill the tanks in my Cherokee 140. His company spends $7,000 to fill the
tanks in his Hawker.

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
news:CkWXe.8108$LV5.2992@trndny02...
Just for comparison:

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a corporate pilot. I spend $200
to
fill the tanks in my Cherokee 140. His company spends $7,000 to fill the
tanks in his Hawker.

The difference is that the $200 is your money.

Mike
MU-2

The difference is that the $200 is your money.

And the $200 in the Cherokee will get you and 2 or 3 others a few
hundred miles. The $7,000 in the hawker will get you a a 1/2 dozen
friends several thousand miles. I wonder how the actual $ per
person-mile works out between the two.

-Robert