New FSS Policy

Let's not turn this into a flame war; I simply want to get a discussion
going on this. Also note that I am not yet a pilot, and I'm hoping to learn
something out of this. You stated:

"After a few calls from FSS when I forgot to close my VFR flight plan..."

By this reasoning, it would be appropriate for one to just make ALL of their
landings "wheels up" because they from time to time forgot to verify that
check list item.

Over the years, I have read many statements where pilots stopped filing
flight plans because they kept forgetting to close them. IMHO, this
indicates a somewhat lackadaisical attitude. If they forget to close their
flight plan, what else are they forgetting to do?

I have often heard that "the flight ain't over 'til the wheels are on the
ground and the prop's stopped turning." A CFI friend of mind always added
"and the flight plan is closed".

Would it perhaps be better, instead of simply abandoning a safety measure
because one forgets to properly use it, to develop the routine required to
properly use the safety measure?

TIA for your opinions...





"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Jay Beckman wrote:

That's my take on this too. IMO, it's "uber efficient" when dealing
with a
bug-smashing C172 just out for a breakfast run like I was this morning.

Do you file a VFR flight plan for all of your VFR flights (excluding
pattern work, of course)?

After a few calls from FSS when I forgot to close my VFR flight plan, I
sided with many in this group who advocated only filing a VFR FP when
flying out of radar coverage which, in my case, only applied when I was
flying up to the Adirondack mountains of NY state.

In all other cases, I rationalized that flying with flight following in
radar coverage negated the value of a VFR flight plan.

--
Peter
























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"Lakeview Bill" wrote:

Would it perhaps be better, instead of simply abandoning a safety measure
because one forgets to properly use it, to develop the routine required to
properly use the safety measure?


Bill, sure it can be considered a safety measure but even better IMO
is flight following. If you have a problem they can know immediately
instead of hours later plus they should know where you are.

I use FF (no flight plan) plus carry a 406 MHz beacon with me.

Ron Lee

Lakeview Bill wrote:

By this reasoning, it would be appropriate for one to just make ALL of their
landings "wheels up" because they from time to time forgot to verify that
check list item.

Over the years, I have read many statements where pilots stopped filing
flight plans because they kept forgetting to close them. IMHO, this
indicates a somewhat lackadaisical attitude. If they forget to close their
flight plan, what else are they forgetting to do?

All of my forgetting to call FSS after landing and securing the aircraft
occurred within my first 40 hours after getting my private certificate.
Any pilot who states that he or she does not make varying degrees of
mistakes during this timeframe would be lying.

I won't speak for others, but for me, the first hundred hours of so of my
flying was such a new and different experience that sometimes it took me
two days to completely process each flight I took. My shirts always had
large wet spots under the arms as I was securing the aircraft.

Regarding closing a flight plan, I personally don't walk back to my car
with a "personal paper checklist" in my hand. At the time, the paper
checklist for all phases of flight (including preflight) was left in the
rental aircraft. To make the assumption that, because I forgot to call
FSS, I must therefore forget items off the paper checklist demonstrates
your unfamiliarity with the subject. No flame intended.

However, the fact that I did forget and receive a couple of phone calls
incited me to print off two 15 inch, bright red rectangles with the words
"CLOSE FLIGHT PLAN" in bold, white letters. I then covered these two
rectangles with packing tape (for durability) and secured one to my flight
bag. The other I placed above the sun visor. When I would fly VFR with a
plan I would lower the visor in my vehicle so that the words were facing me
(obviously this only worked for the return trip).

Soon thereafter I received my instrument rating and began flying most of my
cross country trips IFR. Closing an IFR flight plan after landing at an
uncontrolled airport creates much bigger problems, but these days the
experience of flying is not so overwhelming that I forget to close it.

I have often heard that "the flight ain't over 'til the wheels are on the
ground and the prop's stopped turning." A CFI friend of mind always added
"and the flight plan is closed".

In theory, that is true. In reality, see above.

Would it perhaps be better, instead of simply abandoning a safety measure
because one forgets to properly use it, to develop the routine required to
properly use the safety measure?

Carrying a PLB, using flight following, and choosing less ominous routes
are my replacement for the VFR flight plan. If I have no choice on the
routing (flying over mountainous terrain here in the US east coast), I
always file IFR.

--
Peter























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Peter R. wrote:

Jay Beckman wrote:

After a few calls from FSS when I forgot to close my VFR flight plan, I
sided with many in this group who advocated only filing a VFR FP when
flying out of radar coverage which, in my case, only applied when I was
flying up to the Adirondack mountains of NY state.

I've filed exactly one VFR flight plan since I got my ticket and that
was only six weeks after I got it. It was my first serious cross
country flight (300+ miles and 3 - 4 hours each way). After that I
decided it wasn't worth it.


In all other cases, I rationalized that flying with flight following in
radar coverage negated the value of a VFR flight plan.

I would agree with that, but now anything over 100 miles I'll file IFR
even on a CAVU day: ATC can terminate your FF, but not your IFR flight
plan.


-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons."

Mark T. Dame wrote:
I would agree with that, but now anything over 100 miles I'll file IFR
even on a CAVU day: ATC can terminate your FF, but not your IFR flight
plan.


That's me as well. I have to deal with Class B airspace but there's always an
accomodation made for me if I'm IFR. I can always cancel in the vicinity of my
destination, assuming weather allows.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

"Mark T. Dame" wrote in message
...

I've filed exactly one VFR flight plan since I got my ticket and that
was only six weeks after I got it. It was my first serious cross
country flight (300+ miles and 3 - 4 hours each way). After that I
decided it wasn't worth it.

Not until they have to look for you.


I would agree with that, but now anything over 100 miles I'll file IFR
even on a CAVU day: ATC can terminate your FF, but not your IFR flight
plan.

Not everyone has an instrument rating (unfortunately) so IFR is not an
option. Even if you file VFR and don't activate it, I would think they could
pull up the records for a period of time to find out what your planned route
was.

-m
--
## Mark T. Dame
## VP, Product Development
## MFM Software, Inc. (http://www.mfm.com/)
"Forget the Joneses, I keep us up with the Simpsons."

Add 15 minutes to your flight
"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ly9af.2056$5N1.1831@dukeread08...
This is not a good thing. If the contact number is your home number I can
just here the phone call.

MY WIFE: Hello
FSS: Yes has Mr Giacona arrived yet?
MY WIFE: No
FSS: OK Thanks

My wife then begins to think I've crashed & burned, meanwhile I'm taxiing
into my hanger 5 minutes behind schedule.



"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
newsU8af.564$bo.388@fed1read01...
FSS has a new trick, calling the contact number on your flightplan at or
BEFORE your ETA...

Landed at Sedona this morning, called 800-WX-Brief to close VFR flight
plan, walked into the terminal building and the guy behind the FBO desk
says Prescott FSS just called looking for me. Huh!?!?! I filed for
0730MST departure with an ETE of 50 minutes. Opened the flight plan with
a wheels up time of 0755MST and landed at 0850MST...five minutes off
(probably because we stayed under the PHX Class Bravo longer than usual
so my buddy could see his house.)

So, I called Precott and the gentleman to whom I spoke said he had no
idea why they called looking for me so quick. Excused himself for a
moment to ask around, then came back on the line to explain that this is
now their policy and they will be calling pilots instead of waiting for
pilots to call them. They will be calling At or BEFORE your ETA (his
words...)

Same thing on the return trip. Filed for an ETE of 1H05M and landed at
1H06M ... as I'm on the phone with ABQ (phone system shunted me there) my
call waiting beeps and it's Prescott calling me to check and see if I'm
on the ground.

So, welcome to the new Lockheed/Martin world order...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ
(Now adding 10 minutes to all ETE calculations!)

Well that kind of invalidates the idea that the flight plan is the plan of
the flight doesn't it?


"Aluckyguess" wrote in message
...
Add 15 minutes to your flight


"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:ly9af.2056$5N1.1831@dukeread08...
This is not a good thing. If the contact number is your home number I can
just here the phone call.

MY WIFE: Hello
FSS: Yes has Mr Giacona arrived yet?
MY WIFE: No
FSS: OK Thanks

My wife then begins to think I've crashed & burned, meanwhile I'm taxiing
into my hanger 5 minutes behind schedule.

On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:43:58 -0600, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote:

This is not a good thing. If the contact number is your home number I can
just here the phone call.

MY WIFE: Hello
FSS: Yes has Mr Giacona arrived yet?
MY WIFE: No
FSS: OK Thanks

In my case it'd be:

My Wife: Hello
FSS: Has Mr Halstead arrived yet.
My Wife: No, He went flying today and probably won't be back until
tonight.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


My wife then begins to think I've crashed & burned, meanwhile I'm taxiing
into my hanger 5 minutes behind schedule.






"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
newsU8af.564$bo.388@fed1read01...
FSS has a new trick, calling the contact number on your flightplan at or
BEFORE your ETA...

Landed at Sedona this morning, called 800-WX-Brief to close VFR flight
plan, walked into the terminal building and the guy behind the FBO desk
says Prescott FSS just called looking for me. Huh!?!?! I filed for
0730MST departure with an ETE of 50 minutes. Opened the flight plan with
a wheels up time of 0755MST and landed at 0850MST...five minutes off
(probably because we stayed under the PHX Class Bravo longer than usual so
my buddy could see his house.)

So, I called Precott and the gentleman to whom I spoke said he had no idea
why they called looking for me so quick. Excused himself for a moment to
ask around, then came back on the line to explain that this is now their
policy and they will be calling pilots instead of waiting for pilots to
call them. They will be calling At or BEFORE your ETA (his words...)

Same thing on the return trip. Filed for an ETE of 1H05M and landed at
1H06M ... as I'm on the phone with ABQ (phone system shunted me there) my
call waiting beeps and it's Prescott calling me to check and see if I'm on
the ground.

So, welcome to the new Lockheed/Martin world order...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ
(Now adding 10 minutes to all ETE calculations!)

My wife got one of those calls once.

Younger brother arranged a 'training' flight from Pensacola to Schenectady.
He was in the navy, and a group of guys wanted to go to a wedding. His
training flight was their transportation. He took a bus to Central
Massachusetts, and I flew him back in a rented Cessna. The senior officer of
the group mis-understood the directions, and was waiting in the wrong place
at the airport. He ended up calling my house asking why we were an hour
late. I had already dropped off little brother and was on my way back home.

Wife was not happy.


"Jay Beckman" wrote in message
newsU8af.564$bo.388@fed1read01...
FSS has a new trick, calling the contact number on your flightplan at or
BEFORE your ETA...

Landed at Sedona this morning, called 800-WX-Brief to close VFR flight
plan,
walked into the terminal building and the guy behind the FBO desk says
Prescott FSS just called looking for me. Huh!?!?! I filed for 0730MST
departure with an ETE of 50 minutes. Opened the flight plan with a wheels
up time of 0755MST and landed at 0850MST...five minutes off (probably
because we stayed under the PHX Class Bravo longer than usual so my buddy
could see his house.)

So, I called Precott and the gentleman to whom I spoke said he had no idea
why they called looking for me so quick. Excused himself for a moment to
ask around, then came back on the line to explain that this is now their
policy and they will be calling pilots instead of waiting for pilots to
call
them. They will be calling At or BEFORE your ETA (his words...)

Same thing on the return trip. Filed for an ETE of 1H05M and landed at
1H06M ... as I'm on the phone with ABQ (phone system shunted me there) my
call waiting beeps and it's Prescott calling me to check and see if I'm on
the ground.

So, welcome to the new Lockheed/Martin world order...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ
(Now adding 10 minutes to all ETE calculations!)